Posted by: george stanley (saint_george13@yahoo.com) on Sun Aug 3 14:31:44 2008

> “to have a front arm bar means your arm is extended..you look like a backhanded tennis player.. you are pulling the bat through the contact zone rather than using your power side to push. the LAWS OF PHYSICS state that the greater the extension on the arm, the slower the bat speed..”
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> “also a straight arm means you will not be getting any power from snapping your wrist just prior to contact..it's pretty hard to snap your srist when your arm is straight.. if the elbow is bent, is becomes much easier to impart force with your front wrist..”
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> “if BOTH your arms are bent as you fire, with your hands inside the ball.. this will generate the greatest batspeed..”
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> Hi All
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> Above are a few excerpts from George’s post. View the clips below and judge for yourself “if BOTH your arms are bent as you fire” will generate the greatest bat speed and “the greater the extension on the arm, the slower the bat speed.”
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> <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/Lead_Arm_Straight.wmv">Some good hitters lead arm</a --
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>
> Jack Mankin

hello jack!!!
thank you for ripping on me & giving me a chance to show you & so many others on this site that you might have SOME idea about the generalitites.. BUT when it comes to the specifics, you are found wanting.
i see you are validating your claims by the "well if everyone's doing it & they're all making a $1MILLION/MONTH ..it must not only be right, this is perfection on this earth.. we are in the presence of immortals from another world! AND there is no improvement on perfection.. so don't even try!" mentality.
LOOK AT THE FILM..you are not seeing what i see! the film shows exactly what i have been talking about..for the most part.. however there are holes in ALL THESE hitters stances AND swings. THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS.. THEY ALL HAVE FAULTS.. NO MATTER WHAT THEIR NAME OR HOW BIG THEIR PAYCHECK... THEY CAN ALL IMPROVE! no matter how good you say they are, no matter how wonderful you think they are,they fail 70% of the time.. that's a lot of room for improvement. in your world it is sacreligious to criticize any of these guys.. in reality, there exists a book on how to get them out.. ask any MLB pitching coach. if you ask EVERY one of these guys TO A MAN THEY WILL ALL
TELL YOU THEY ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THEIR SUCCESS RATE
& ARE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH CERTAIN PITCHES IN CERTAIN SPOTS.. the reason being holes in their stances & swings. but not in your perfect world... these guys are all immortal gods who are above criticism & the LAWS OF LOGIC & PHYSICS,, & should be worshipped on a daily basis... not.

1.GRIFFEY- has BOTH arms bent (front arm not as much as i would like, nor are his hands up high enough for me)as he gets ready to fire..IN MY POST I WRITE "if BOTH your arms are bent as you fire” will generate the greatest bat speed.. KEYWORD: AS YOU FIRE.. not talking about the middle or the contact part of the swing.. of course as you swing your front arm will extend.. IT HAS TO!!.. BUT IF YOU NOTICE EVEN AT CONTACT, THE FRONT ARM IS NOT.. I REPEAT NOT STRAIGHT!! IT HAS A BEND AT THE ELBOW!
as he swings, he is constantly fighting a battle to keep his hands AND arms in tight to his body.. NOTICE HIS POWER ELBOW IS NO MORE THAN AN INCH OFF HIS HIP.. IN TIGHT TO HIS BODY!! NOTICE HIS FRONT UPPER ARM IS IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH HIS RIGHT NIPPLE!!! HE COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE TRYING ANY HARDER TO KEEP HIS ARMS IN TIGHT TO HIS BODY!!!! THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.. RATHER THAN EXTENDING HIS ARMS AWAY FROM HIS BODY!
KEN GRIFFEY is one of my favorite players.. but that will not stop me from saying he has a stance wherein his weight needs to be directly over his feet..LIKE EVERY OTHER PLAYER WHO STEPS IN THE BOX.. TO HAVE A TOO WIDE STANCE IS TO DIMINISH THE LOWER BODY FORCE YOU CAN GENERATE TO YOUR SWING. so he must shorten his base a little in order to generate more lower body torque into his swing.also has his bat past the perpendicular, which means his bat must travel backward at least 10-12" toward the catcher before it starts FORWARD toward the ball.he has been able to oversome these weaknesses with his athletic ability.. but as he has gotten older, he is failing at a greater rate. to ask young players to imitate his stance or swing is not fair to them.. & makes for a much longer learning curve. COACHES OF THE WORLD: DON'T ADOPT THE MONKEY-SEE MONKEY-DO SCHOOL OF BATTING INSTRUCTION..
2.HALLIDAY- has a too wide base, combined with his front foot is already opened up before he starts to fire means he is prematurely opening up his front hip BEFORE HE STARTS TO FIRE.starts out with his front arm extended & his hands showing to the pitcher.. not good. gives the pitcher a spot to throw at that he cannot get to.. just inside & under his hands, where he cannot possibly get around in time to put the ball in play with any authority.also has his bat past the perpendicular, making for too much bat travel both distance-wise as well as time-wise.
he is however, generating excellent lower body torque with his back hip.. which is his most important asset to his success.. he understands that the back leg & hip is the most powerful part of his body & uses it very well.. if only he had a short base & lifted his front foot while driving forward with his back leg, thus having forward stride impetus to go along with the lower body torque, he would generate even greater batspeed.. thus he would be even more successful than he is. notice the 2 common threads he has with GRIFFEY: his power hand is in tight on his hip, & his upper front arm is in contact with his chest..good! HOWEVER:
IF YOU NOTICE AT THAT CRITICAL POINT WHEN HE BENDS HIS BACK LEG, DROPS HIS POWER HIP, & STARTS TO TORQUE, BRINGING HIS POWER ELBOW & HAND IN TIGHT TO HIS BODY (this is classic movement.. doesn't get much better) thus GENERATING THE MAXIMUM ROTATIONAL POWER POSSIBLE..
BAD NEWS!!:
THIS POWER RUNS INTO HIS STRAIGHT FRONT ARM BAR.. DIMINISHING HIS BAT SPEED!!can you not notice that his bat does not speed up from that point? if he had a bent front arm, he would be in harmony with the force generated by the power arm.. doesn't happen.. his straight front arm is definitely having a deleterious effect on his batspeed halfway thru his swing.rather than accelerating the bat halfway thru the swing, he is battling HIMSELF by trying to keep his hands inside the pitch & at the same time trying to keep his front arm straight.. can you not see the braking effect that the straight arm has specifically on the power arm & in general on the batspeed? if you look at it closely, i am sure you can see the two opposing forces battling each other, thus slowing the batspeed.. if you cannot, then i can't help you. maybe if you go back to GRIFFEY & look again, you see he does in fact bend his frint arm to keep inside the pitch.. HALLIDAY does NOT.

3.GORDON BECKHAM- you talk about all his numbers...blahblahblah.. KEYWORD: COLLEGE BASEBALL.. translation: hitting against pitchers who are not of MLB caliber..i have to object to your statement "HE OBVIOUSLY HAS A GREAT SWING"... HUH?!?!? in the crazy world of LOGIC, BECAUSE YOU HAD X,Y & Z NUMBERS, THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN JUMP TO THE DEDUCTION THAT HE OBVIOUSLY HAS A GREAT SWING!!you are also fixated on the swing as being the only concern of hitting a baseball: WHAT YOU REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND OR ADMIT IS THAT THERE ARE 2 PARTS TO THE PHYSICAL ASPECT OF HITTING: BESIDE THE SWING.. THERE IS THE STANCE!! IT IS A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP.. THEY LIVE OFF EACH OTHER! IF THEY ARE NOT BOTH AT THEIR OPTIMUM EFFICIENCY, THEN THE OVERALL PERFORMANCE SUCCESS RATE WILL SUFFER. YOU HOWEVER IN A POST SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT YOU HAVE STILL NOT DETERMINED WHETHER THERE IS ANY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE STANCE & SUCCESS RATE. wow.. what a closed minded statement.. when you exhibit that kind of mentality, you uncover your shortcomings as a coach.. to me anyway. according to that LOGIC, WOULD YOU DEDUCE THAT EVERY COLLEGE PLAYER WHO HAD THE BEST NUMBERS IN COLLEGE BALL IN ANY YEAR OBVIOUSLY HAD A GREAT SWING.. THEREFORE SINCE THEY ALL HAD A GREAT SWING, THEY ALL ARE MLB PLAYERS TODAY?!?!? can you not see the hole in you reasoning.. or lack of it? because without looking at the books, i KNOW that they did not all make it to MLB. although i see a number of things i like,I SEE EVEN MORE THAT I DON'T LIKE:
i like his location front to back in the box, with his front foot in front of the leading edge of the plate.. so few hitters understand they must be forward in the box if only to cut down on the breaking movement of a breaking ball.. the farther back you are in the box, the more distance therefore the more advantage you give to the pitcher to play you on a breaking ball. also the more break in the pitch, thus making it more difficult to put good wood on it. the closer you are to the pitcher, the straighter the ball is traveling..a straight pitch will be easier to hit than a pitch that has a lot of movement.so wouldn't you prefer to locate yourself in a position where you are swinging at a pitch when it is going mostly straight, than after it starts to break sharply? this is how you would attack a knuckleball pitcher like TIM WAKEFIELD.. by stepping to the very front of the box, thus eliminating MOST of the sharp downward break in his pitches, & hitting the ball BEFORE it begins its most nasty break..
i would like to see him a little closer to the plate.. i don't think he quite has the far edge of the plate covered..
HE HAS A WAY TOO WIDE STANCE.. he needs to have his weight directly
over his feet.. with a short base it is easier to transfer your weight from front to back & get your body mass going toward the pitcher.. thus generating maximum batspeed. might as well be sitting on a barstool for all the energy he is generating with his lower body.. which ain't much.
he is holding his hands WAY TOO LOW.. he will have a hard time on a pitch up in the zone simply because he will be uppercutting on that pitch.. and we all know that is a fatal error.. don't we?
GOOD POINTS: HANDS BEHIND HIS LEAD SHOULDER. FAIRLY CLOSED STANCED.. but not quite enough.. also BAT VERY CLOSE TO PERPENDICULAR- GOOD!.. no backward windup, which is a fatal error in my book, & one of the most common flaws in MLB hitters today.. they all feel the need to be beerbellyball 16" softball buggywhippers.. sorry jack, i know you hate to hear those terms but that is what is wrong with MLB hitters today.. now that steroids are no longer tolerated, you're going to see a lot of guys who were using that advantage to help them overcome their lousy stances & swings & hitting lotsa HR's , are going to be looking VERY bad for a VERY long time.
PROGNOSIS:not going to be all that bad
STRONG POINTS- being forward in the box, short stroke are good starting blocks..i see a lot of bend in the bat, meaning he has great strength.. has the makings of a power hitter, with the downside being a lower than desired BA.
WEAKNESSES-too wide stance, too much arms/shouldres, not enough lower body torque, FRONT ARM TOO STRAIGHT AT FIRING POSITION.. HANDS TOO LOW CAN KILL YOU..
the question will be no different for this kid than for any other : when the pitchers start filing on his weaknesses what will he do to adjust? like any other player IT IS INSIDE THE PLAYER'S HEAD TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO IN ORDER TO COMPETE..with a little help from a batting coach who is able to identify his weaknesses, make the player understand what the weakness is & why he is failing.. then conceive of an adjustment which will eliminate the weakness, & (most important)make the hitter understand why the adjsutment will work.. without the player understanding the WHY as well as the WHAT, you will fail the player.. you must make him fully understand the PHYSICS involved so he can explain it back to you.. only then will you have a chance to help him to help himself.
remains to be seen.

SOSA- please. wanna talk about hitting 600 foot HR's in BATTING PRACTICE, WITH A STANCE & SWING THAT IS NOT USED IN ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE?!?!?!.. THUS IS NOT APPLICABLE TO ANY OTHER SITUATION.. to say nothing of the obvious effect of too many hot suppers..
SAMMY SOSA WON MY "GREATEST PHYSICAL SKILLS & DOING THE LEAST WITH THEM" for 10-12 years.. one of the world's greatest brickheads..
for the first 10 years in the league he was doing the cha-cha-cha while the ball was being released.. after JEFF PENTLAND got him to FINALLY get in a fixed still position & STAY THERE UNTIL THE BALL WAS RELEASED.. surprise!! the ball started flying in the seats!! ONLY TOOK HIM 10 YEARS TO FIGURE IT OUT!
you obviously never saw SAMMY play RF for the sox one year.. i never missed a game if i could.. sammy was constantly finding new ways to strike out EVERY DAY! HILARIOUS STUFF!! had me rolling on the floor
EVERY DAY!! they sat him down with about 12-15 games to go in the season, because they didn't want him to break the K record.. also led the league that year with 13 E's.. you never saw a player that had less of a clue than this guy!! AND he was a stick.. he looked like LANCE JOHNSTON's little kid brother.
let me re-iterate..your argument is if those guys are doing it,it must be PERFECT WITH NO ROOM FOR REFINEMENT OR CRITICISM...not.
ALSO: you ask everyone to judge for themselves by watching the tape of the hitters.. THAT IS NOT A BASIS OF COMPARISON FOR A DEDUCTION!!
IN ORDER TO DETERMINE WHO IS RIGHT & WHO IS NOT WOULD BE FOR THE HITTERS TO TRY IT MY WAY & ELECTRONICALLY MEASURE THE BATSPEEDS USING BOTH STYLES..instead you show the tape & say "well they do it this way, so it must be the best way.." yeah right.
ALSO: YOU REFUTE MY STATEMENT THE GREATER THE EXTENSION, THE SLOWER THE BATSPEED..
which means you have not tried my PHYSICS EXPERIMENT.. YES A PHYSICS LAB EXPERIMENT.. WHICH I WROTE ABOUT IN MY PREVIOUS POST..IF YOU TRIED IT, YOU WOULD FINALLY FINALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU & ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THIS SITE WHO THINK BASEBALL PLAYERS & THEIR COACHES ARE IMMUNE TO THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.. WHICH YOU ARE NOT!!! HELLO!?!?!? REFUTE THAT IF YOU CAN.. which you cannot..YOUR MANNER OF REFUTING IT IS TO SHOW A TAPE.. WHICH PROVES CERTAIN ASPECTS OF WHAT I AM SAYING.. BUT THE TAPES ALONE DO NOT SHOW THEM TRYING IT MY WAY.. instead you say because these guys are doing it this way it is the ONLY WAY!!. if there was no dissent on this site, you would not HAVE a site... everyone would be home asleep on their couch.
ALL YOU HITTERS & COACHES OUT THERE: TRY THE EXPERIMENT IN MY PREVIOUS POST.. THAT IS THE LAW OF PHYSICS.. NOT ROY HALLIDAY'S.. AFTER TRYING THE EXPERIMENT,, LOOK IN THE MIRROR & MAKE THE LOGICAL DEDUCTION:
THE CLOSER YOUR HANDS ARE TO YOUR BODY, THE GREATER THE ROTATIONAL SPEED YOU WILL GENERATE.IN ORDER FOR YOUR HANDS TO BE CLOSE TO YOUR HANDY, YOU MUST BEND YOUR ARMS AT THE ELBOW.. THUS WHEN YOU FIRE, YOU WILL GENERATE THE GREATEST ROTATIONAL SPEED, THUS THE GREATEST BATSPEED...YOU GUYS ARE ALL TELLING ME IT'S DARK OUT WHEN I LOOK OUT THE WINDOW & SEE THE SUN..
jack i want to thank you for the opportunity to have people look at some tape while they read what i write.. hoping for some feedback that includes some rebuttals about the specifics of what i have written.. not high school kid remarks like are usually written on this site by people who have a hard time stringing a sentence together with moer than 4 words.
i have no doubt what i have written here is a gold mine of useable information for all you coaches out there.. it's different from the usual party line... but that's how change comes about.. open your mind.
drive careful

JACK YOU HAVE PUT EGG ALL OVER YOUR FACE UNLESS YOU PERFORM THE EXPERIMENT