Posted by: phil (philipland@aol.com) on Sun Jul 31 18:46:34 2005

> phil,
>
>
> Who is the one arguing semantics?
>
> Your quote (previous post):
> “In my opinion, the only force that the hands apply directly is a gripping force."
>
> Your quote (last post):
> “The forces you describe are gripping forces used sequentially.”
>
> Right. And fingers fired sequentially can provide force and direction.
>
******I agree. But as narrow minded as it may seem, I don't think it can happen when a bat is being swung at 75 mph.******
>
> Your quote:
> “In your experiment, the bat falls as the grip lessens because of gravity.”
>
> Wrong, if it fell it would hit you on the head. It is LOWERED.
> And I’m the one arguing semantics? How do you LESSEN (not immediately and totally relax) a grip, if you don’t apply force?
>
> ******Lowered or falls, it doesn't matter. When you lesson the grip you're reducing the force of the fingers on the bat. The bat lowers as a result of gravity. And yes I agree that the forces applied by the fingers allow you to raise it again.****

>
> Your quote:
> “If you were to start a baseball swing in the same manner, the bat would be pointed to the ground.”
>
> Really Phil, my experiment was to show the force that CAN be applied. Again who is arguing semantics? I DID NOT suggest to start a baseball swing in that manner.
>
> I might add, that in my experiment I also RAISED the bat from the top of my head. I /you/anyone overcame not only gravity, but the weight of the bat.
>
> ******I wasn't implying you suggested to start the swing in any manner. My point was that if you loosen your grip as the plane of the bat moves from verticle to horizontal, gravity would cause the bat to lower.******
>
>
> Your quote:
> “Try driving a nail with a hammer using sequential finger firing with your arm and wrist
> locked. I don't think it will work.”
>
> Neither do I. Do you really think I advocate swinging a bat or hammer or bull whip with arm and wrist locked? Please answer. Or was I merely demonstrating to illustrate hand forces (finger forces) that could add to a swing?
>
> ******Again I agree on the ability to apply the forces, but don't feel it can be done with a full swing. (My narrow mindedness showing.)******
>
>
> Your quote:
> “I don't disagree that manipulation is possible, but in a full swing with a game bat, I don't see how it can be accomplished, or add much benefit.”
>
> How narrow minded. You use your hands every day, manipulating, lord knows, how many objects, BUT NOT in a full swing with a game bat?
>
> ****Explained above.******
>
> Your quote:
> “I play alot of golf, and my grip pressure thought is to hold the club lightly. It allows me to free the tension in my arms so that I feel my arms are being whipped through the swing. I can maintain that light grip pressure to the point of release, about the time the wrists begin unhinging and the club's path starts down from its verticle orientation. If I don't hold tight at this point, the club will leave my hands. So I guess what I'm saying is that as I approach contact, my fingers aren't afforded the opportunity to fire sequentially because they're too busy just holding on to the club”
>
>
> In the first sentence, “…grip pressure thought…”. Phil, you are not thinking this when you swing your golf club are you? Can you? The way your hands grip and apply pressure have become an involuntary action.
> Besides, even if you could, the golf swing is a repeatable swing. The baseball swing (in competition) transitions from repeatable to procedural.
>
> ******Yes it is my primary "swing thought" at set up. I have one in my back swing, and my down swing. I'm sure the actions are involuntary and instinctive as they occur, but they act as ques before, and during the swing. I can consciously not increase, or increase, my grip during the swing if I focus on doing it. I do it occasionally in practice to see how it effects ball flight.******

> For how the hands (elbows, shoulders, etc.) interact in multi-joint movements:
> (Intersegmental interaction torques)
>
> http://www.batspeed.com/messageboard/output/21883.html

******I don't remember if I read it on this board, or some where else, but a term used to explain how these interactions increase bat speed was "summation of levers".

I've found this site interesting, but have not seen others like it. Do you know of any other interesting sites that deal with the baseball swing?******