Posted by: Randy () on Sat Nov 13 18:01:48 2004

Bonds and Mcgwire were always pfo hitters and so was Ted Williams.
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> > > > > Flail - noun
> > > > > "ancient hand tool for threshing grain. It consists of two pieces of wood: the handstaff, or helve, and the beater, joined by a thong. The handstaff is a light rod several feet long, the beater a shorter piece. "
> > > > >
> > > > > How in the world could it ever be a linear method of swinging??
> > > > > Clearly to use a flail properly it would have to be swung in a circular motion. Understanding the physics of the flail will increase batspeed, ball compression and increase ball velocity off the bat.
> > > > > Which I will save for another post.
> > > >
> > > > mb, Don't take the term "linear" so literally. Of course pure linearism in the dictionary sense of the word would mean a swing similar to making a shot in the game of pool. Obviously we don't mean that. Linear is thrusting the hands forward whereas rotation is the hands being in a circular hand path.As far as Mcgwire, Bonds and Williams are concerned, I agree they were PFO's and they were rotational. Certainly Carew was not as PFO and he was linear. You don't have to be a PFO to be rotational (e.g., Piazza), but there does seem to be a correlation between PFO mechanics and rotational mechanics. For the flail stuff, I won't comment because frankly I can't find anyone who can explain what it is, and I have never heard any baseball commentators use the term.It might be a term someone made up to describe something that meant something to them personally in their own way, I don't know. If I'm misinformed please let me know.
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> > > The True flail as defined is an excellent way to understand the physics of the swing. The talk about linear and rotational is really ridiculous. As you ascertained you cannot have a true linear swing or hands. The swing must move in an arc. Down and out. The swing indeally would be modeled after a gyroscope. If one can learn to crank the gyroscope he/she can impart maximum force into the ball as long as the hitter maintained the law of the flail. Ideally the bathead should never pass the hands until well after the ball has left the bat. Think of the flail tool. The end of the flail must due to centrepedial force is always attempting to maintain its "straight inline" position. If it moves past the straight inline position it must slow down to regai the straight inline position.
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> > The bathead passes the hands at contact on most all balls that are pulled. The bathead does not pass the hands at contact on most balls hit the other way. Check the overhead clips of Murcer, Rose, Robinson and B.Williams. The bathead is past the hands on the pulled balls by Robinson, Murcer and Williams. The bathead did not pass the hands at contact on the clip of Rose, and he was hitting the ball just to the right of center.
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> So is flail consistent or not consistent with PFO and THT?

Bhl, can you be an effective pfo if you are unwilling to crowd the plate? I noticed Bonds crowds the plate and he is a pfo but I think there are a lot of pfo's who do NOT crowd the plate, so maybe crowding the plate is not a requirement as long as you are also using tht.What do you and the others think?