Posted by: () on Sat Dec 2 06:15:15 2000

>>>About the inward turn...I know the hands get closer to the armpit, but during the turn do the arms go straight back, or slightly down, like in the Frame Picture. Or is the picture just an art mistake? --- Madmax <<<
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> > > > > > >>>Good question. I was wondering the same thing. So how about it, Jack, do the hands drop in an ideal inward turn? I have noticed that Canseco and some others do indeed drop their hands, while most players I have watched seem to raise thier hands almost to directly behind the ear before coming forward. Jack, we need your input here - your long absence is causing the blind to lead the blind (not a good thing)! -- JG<<<
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> > > > > > Hi Max & JG
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> > > > > > Max, I have often kidded Tom, our webmaster, about having a great eye for art but that his eye for a good swing leaves a lot to be desired.
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> > > > > > Hitters may start the inward turn with their hands moving upward or coming down. The important thing is to have the hands about shoulder height as rotation begins. This is especially true for hitters who use top-hand-torque. I have noted that even a few of the great hitters (Canseco, Big Mac, Strawberry, Eric Davis and others) go into some serious slumps while initiating the swing (shoulder rotation) with the hands below the normal plane of the swing.
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> > > > > > Starting the swing with the hands below the plane caused the bat-head to be accelerated in too much of a vertical angle - down through the plane instead of into it. Having the hands to low to early in the swing also caused a bind to occur in the wrist of the top hand. The back forearm must remain more vertical during initiation for the wrist to rotate freely in the plane. The binding that occurs when the wrist can't rotate in the plane resulted in what I termed "the reverse wrist roll." The plane of the swing was wobbly and the bat-head stalled at contact.
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> > > > > > During this period in time, Canseco, Big Mac and Strawberry also complained of back problems. I really think there may have been a connection. --- Joe A, even these great athletes couldn't make those mechanics work.
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> > > > > > Jack Mankin
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> > > > > Jack,
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> > > > > Do you mean that great athlete Jose Canseco who was once hit on the head with a fly ball he was trying to catch??
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> > > > > Jack, I have made comments about a comments that appears in many posts but have not recieived a reply. This has to do with the idea that some hitters swing up on the ball.
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> > > > > In your post above you comment that the hands are around the arm pit as the swing starts. The arm pit is above the higest strike. If the hands start out above any stride, how can a player hit up on the ball.
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> > > > > Its my contention that in order to swing up on a pitch the hands must be lowered to a point below the height of the pitch before the swing starts forward.
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> > > > > If not that, then the ..then swoop down and up on the ball. I don't think so.
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> > > > > I think that all hitters swing down on the ball to different degrees.
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> > > > > Joe A.
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> > > > >"the hands must be lowered to a point below the height of the pitch" ........if this is what joe a is advocating i would have to respectfully disagree.....imagine a hitter swinging at a strike at the knees....that means dropping the hands below the knees???!!!!............ "the swing starts with the hands above the path of the ball"......this statement is one i am in complete agreement with.........with all due respect, joe a, either (1)you have your concepts backwards or (2) your wording is not clear.....you seem to be suggesting that you support the statement "the hands must be lowered to a point below the height of the pitch".......and you seem to disagree with the statement "the swing starts with the hands above the path of the ball".......sorry if i fail to understand your point....the important thing is that we all agree that the first statement is absurd & that the second statement is correct......respectfully, grc....
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> > > grc,
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> > > This is a perfect example why I have asked you NOT to comment on my posts.
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> > > Even the fact that you have totally missed the point (again) of most of what I have said, which by the way was directed to Jack not you, the last line should have clarified my point so no one would "fail to understand." Still, didn't get it.
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> > > Why don't you do what I have asked and ignore my posts.
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> > > Joe A.
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> > >
> > >
> > > Joe A.
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> >
> > > sorry, joe....i didn't mean to offend you....but you do understand that there are kids out there who read our posts and i wouldn't want any kid to get the impression that "the hands must be lowered to a point below the height of the pitch".......respectfully,
> grc....
>
> Hi all
>
> High speed video analysis seems to bear this out: the hitters with the highest bat speed keep their hands above the ball throughout the swing. But the barrel drops below the hands while the barrel is still behnd the body and oreinted in some fashion toward the catcher. There is really very little need for argument about this. The video evidence is clear. The hands may move down at first and then level off, but the barrel is coming up. Just look at it.
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> Next, Jose Canseco needs some help here. Let me be very clear. Jose Canseco, at his advanced and fragile age, is still, as we speak, a better athlete than most anyone here will ever personally know. He stole 40 bases one year and had a very fine arm before shoulder problems. So he wasn't great at fly ball later on. Venal, not mortal that. He could probably still do a backflip while juggling pumpkins.
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> But that is not why he is a great hitter. He is a great hitter because he uses excellent mechanics, the same used by George Brett and many others. Also, Mark McGwire has hit .300. Todd Helton almost hit.400 and he does what batspeed.com is talking about.
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> We are still arguing about why we should learn from great experts. For most of us, it is a self-defining question.
>
> HoffmanLa

Whom ever,

This may be too complicated for me to make clear especially to those who dont understand the mechanics, but I will try.

The barrel of the bat is below the hands because the bat in on a line from the shoulders, arms, hands and bat. This line is a swing that is trying to hit a ball that is at a point (if its a strike)BELOW the shoulders, arms and hands.

The ball is below the Shoulders, arms and hands the bat must extend out to the ball so, the bat barrel MUST be below the hands.

Lets review. Assume the pitch is a strike.

The height of the ball is below the shoulders, arms hands.

The bat is an extension of the shoulders, arms and hands.

In order for the bat to make contact with the ball the line from the shoulder, arms, hands and the bat must be pointing from the shoulder to the ground. Lower, right???

Therefore the bat must be below the hands in order to hit the ball.

Come on guys, its not some mysterious skill some one must devleop to generate power. Its not something we should be teaching. It just happens if the hitter swings the bat at the ball. In fact its probably not possible to swing at a ball and have the barrel of the bat above the hands.

Looking at films is not going to help if you dont know what your looking at. Lets use some common sense, huh?

Joe A.