Posted by: ssarge (ssarginson@earthlink.net) on Sun Oct 31 20:37:26 2004

Scott- thanks for a diplomatic response and understanding that I am a firm believer in rotational hitting as the best method for hitting a baseball. Also for recognizing Jack's disciplined and educated work in his expertise on this topic.
> >
> > Jack has always stuck to his premise that this forum provide "A frank and open-minded discussion of the swing"... that it should be a benefit to all. He has always handled responses professionally.
> >
> > It has been implied I somehow represent SETPRO but I do not and really don't know much about that site or their instruction. I suppose this alleged connection has been because I keep pushing the THT envelope as I assume SETPRO does as well.
> >
> > The scap load reference I make is just an example of another means I use to demo hands coming back. If that is mechanically/functionally the wrong principle as you say then what mechanic is it that allows a hitter to bring their hands back via a rear shoulder shrug "without" the need to apply THT to the bat?
> > Whatever "that" muscular function is does not require THT to be accomplished and can still provide many of the necessary components to qualify as a rotational swing.
> >
> > The whole THT thing being an absolute to impart proper rotational mechanics obviously is the area I am not sold on. As I have stated, yes perhaps overstated, I WANT TO BE able to be confident THT is a necessary component or is it a bonus to the rotational swing to add batspeed or a distraction that if not performed correctly (with BHT), can limit/hinder the swing?
> >
> > Again, nobody should have to apologize on this site for questioning something that is obviously still questioned.
>
>
> What are the forces acting on the bat in the rotational swing?
>
> Keeping the hands back is an attempt to be more rotational. Loading the hands back as you say is an attempt to be more rotational, as opposed to driving the hands forward.
>
> But' what the forces involved in the initiation of the swing. As Jack say's if you initiate the swing incorrecting what are your chances of having good transfer mechanics.
>
> If you understand what I'm asking you will better understand Jack's principles. One force involved is outward, the bat wants to be projected outward from the body as you rotate.
>
> How does rotaion affect the swing, what does it do to the swing?


Hitter:

The forces involved in the initiation of the swing should be a center of gravity / mass change to the front side (different than weight shift, not even remotely referring to that or to a linear forward move). And then as violent a rotation as can possibly be initiated by the CENTER of the body.

If you initate the swing incorrectly, there is NO chance that appropriate transfer mechanics will occur. However, I am of the belief that a slotted elbow and circular hand path limit the involvement of the arms in terms of power generaion. In fact, I think that is kind of the point of rotational mechanics.

BHT is a concept I believe in very firmly, but I hope Jack and others would conced that the bottom hand is a conveyance of much of the rotational force developed by the body - not solely and on it's own the agency responsible for the development of that force.

I do believe that one handed swings by an elite hitter will demonstarte the ability to hit the ball far further with just the bottom hand than the top. This does assume that the one handed swings are taken with mechanics that approximate the relative arm positions from a "real" swing. In other words, with the top hand one-handed swing, the elbow does not lead the hands. No "bat drag" and whip of the top hand. You can get power that way, but obviously, elite hitters NEVER lead with the back elbow, because it is too slow to develop bat speed. In fact, this is one of the easy ways to tell an elite hitter from non-elite in high speed frame-by-frame video.

So, rather than belaboring the point, let me concede that I may well need to develop more understanding, here. And perhaps we may have to "agree to disagree." One thing I hope all of us would agree on is that rotational mechanics and CHP are universal principles of elite hitters. I would hope that we would all further agree that the swing is controlled from the front side. I am happy to use BHT as a term to define that front-side dominance, assuming it is understood that the whole front side of the body (not just the bottom hand) is involved.


BTW, as an AL scout, I'd be quite interested in your assessment of the A's hitters. I live in NorCal, and watch most A's games. I think Chavez, Byrnes, Crosby - as well as some others - are headed in the wrong direction, and that their hand path is becoming rather linear. I am aware of D. Hudgens instructional beliefs, and actually belief what I am observing is consistent with his beliefs. I will note that the A's had a rather good year in terms of BA (club record), and that can't be marginalized. I don't like the trend (I think) I'm seeing, though.

I would quite appreciate your professional assessment on this topic.

Highest regards,

Scott

Regards,

Scott