Posted by: Shawn () on Thu Aug 5 14:39:02 2004

>>> Ok are we saying the same thing and seeing it the same way?
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> I'll say the top hand is more active during initiation. In the clip the bathead moves from slightly pointing toward the pitcher to back toward the catcher with minimal forward movement of the hands (there is forward movement).
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> The bottom hand must also (leads arm) fight the build up of angular velocity, centrifugal force?. That why we get blisters on the bottom hand if we haven't swung in awhile.
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> The bat itself wants to swing out of rotation. I heard a term I liked, the bat is prepelled.
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> I agree the bottom hands serves as a rotational point, but I think the top hand is still active in turning the bat. Even though the tophand is active early, it doesn't complete the entire 90 degree turn until contact. So we would have two forces acting in turning the bat. I think you would agree with what I'm trying to say.
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> View the Giambi clip today and get back to me. I will post a overhead shot for further discussion on what happens in the swing. <<<
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> Hi Shawn
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> Yes, I would say that once we clarified our terms, we see the swing about the same. I would like to make a point that I have found to be the key in generating bat speed. – As you rightfully pointed out, shoulder rotation alone will cause the bat-head (and thus the top-hand) to arc from its launch position back toward the catcher during initiation.
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> This would be true even if the back-arm and shoulder complex remains relaxed during rotation. However, the back-arm does not remain dormant. The amount of bat speed generated will be governed by whether or not the direction of force supplied to the top-hand adds to or detracts from this natural bat-head acceleration (back toward the catcher).
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> If the back-arm and shoulder complex (call it scap-loading if you wish) continues pulling the top-hand back in the same direction induced from shoulder rotation, the bat-head will be even further accelerated. However, the natural tendency of most batters (probably 98+ percent) is to drive the top-hand forward during initiation. This direction of force is counter to the top-hand rotation induced from shoulder rotation, which reduces bat-head acceleration and directs the hand-path into a straighter course.
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> The pulling back of the top-hand applies torque at the handle, which adds to the bat speed derived from shoulder rotation. – Shawn, I will address the swing clip in another post.
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> Jack Mankin
>

Jack,

I need to buy a batspeed radar to further understand the relationship. I've been doing video analysis and I'm fighting a couple of swing flaws IMO. One is counter rotating the shoulders when I 'think' it's just the back arm. I think this is affecting my lowerbody as well. My upperbody is staying back, but it's also wrappiing the bat head some.

Scapula loading is very questionable. It's to easy to induce arm drag at initiation. Some of the rotation might not accelerate the bathead at initiation. I think most have just learned to launch their swing from a given position, elbow up, and the loading is minimal.

As you say the elbow is up because of the direction of the foeces applied to the bat. I don't discount that idea as I'm looking at swings. I just don't know how much is being added to the already rotational launch.

I think there are some issue of the swing being a forward action and how we produce that force. As you say 98% will do it wrong. It does come down to how we are swinging and how force is produced or supplied to the bathead.

In any case their are some things that do happen naturally is the swing that we must account for.

From looking at my own swing, the timing of the loading and the initiation has a great affect on how the forces are supplied to the bathead. I've been doing a stride swing and a no stride. Setting up the launch can greatly affect how the bat is swung.

I'll be waiting for your take on Giambi.

Shawn