Posted by: RQL () on Sat Oct 28 21:25:46 2000

grc-
> >
> > Thanks for reading through that long post.Things got less clear at the
> > end along with typos.First let me clarify:
> >
> > One of the most difficult things to learn is AVOIDING premature
> > extension of the back arm.
> >
> > Elbow up then down before/at launch helps initiate the swing with top
> > hand torque,but doesn't have much to do with encouraging a circular
> > start to the handpath.
> >
> > The position of the hands at launch(up and in behind the head-not back
> > down or out)is important for getting the hands started right.
> >
> >
> > It sounds like RQL's experience is similar to your son's.This would be
> > my guess about how his mechanics evolved(RQL-please feel free to
> > correct.He's a righty who bats lefty.The swing is dominated by a down
> > swinging lead arm resulting in a downward swing plane(aside-from
> > Paul's recent post he thinks in terms of the plane of the shoulders-I
> > am talking about the plane the bat is turning in)that doesn't match
> > the trajectory of the pitch well,and with a relatively late bat on the
> > inside stuff.This results in line drives to center,grounders to right
> > and popups to left (when late on the inside stuff).
> >
> > This is caused by what a golf pro would call "swinging over the
> > top".If you don't play golf have a pro demonstrate to you what this
> > means and how they correct it.Basically what happens in hitting is the
> > handpath is started by extension of the front(dominant) arm instead of
> > by shoulder rotation,So the bat goes out away from the body taking the
> > shoulders with it and usually resulting in some forward lunging of the
> > torso.This is also similar to what we have called the downward
> > chopping swing.
> >
> > My reading of RQL's post is that he approached this by working on
> > changing the contact point and angle of the bat(in the horizontal
> > plane/parralel to the ground).He did huge amounts of tee work and
> > found what helped pull the inside/middle ball was more hip turn.Next
> > he used more top hand and got the ball up more because this seemed to
> > stop the downswing sooner(?some wobble/uppercutting to swing).Finally
> > he learned to lean back and get the hands in to pull the inside corner
> > pitch(similart to Piazza's first series homer this year)with the
> > tighter handpath keeping the bat angle fair longer.He also did lots of
> > strength and hand-eye work and is exceptionally good on the mental
> > side,of course.Mechanically,the adjustment was to create an arcing
> > handpath for the inside pitch.
> >
> > I would think working on this location would also be a good place for
> > your son to focus.I would work on what Jack calls bottomhand
> > torque.This really emphasizes the shoulder rotation driving the bottom
> > hand in a controlled arc all the way until contact with no
> > lunging,even requiring more lean BACK for the inside location.The tilt
> > of the torsoe at launch has to do with how much the swing lifts the
> > ball in general.As far as starting the handpath circular,it is
> > important to know the feel of starting it with shoulder rotation(not
> > with shoulder tilt or arm action that breaks down the backside) and
> > with the hands up and in behind the head.
> >
> > As Paul's recent posts show,the body feels and controls various motor
> > programs in a way that is different from the sequence they are run
> > in.The upperbody controls the lower and the hips control the legs even
> > though the legs have to execute first to start the hips which start
> > the torso which start the hands,etc.This is why so many people
> > emphasize the hands in the swing.Then they lose perspective and have
> > the hands also start things like taking the knob to the ball,etc.The
> > proper feel of the hands is probably the key swing control factor,but
> > the execution has to be with mechanics that have the handpath driven
> > by shoulder rotation with the arms creating a firm connection and
> > torque forces."Throwing" can be an effective cue if it is the feel of
> > throwing the batHEAD as Jack states.If you throw the knob,you will get
> > whipping(ineffective)transfer mechanics with the back elbow in front
> > of the hands.Another cue/drill that can help with the feel of the
> > hands is one recommended by Jeff Hodge at biomechanicbaseball.He
> > recommends the thought of hitting the inside of the ball.This can be
> > done with tee work by placing the ball on the tee with a seam inside
> > as a target.This promotes the tight arcing handpath via hand feel that
> > is the best way to drive the swing program.
> >
> > Remember that tee drills are refining a spatially optimized swing,not
> > a game(max batspeed/timing optimized)swing,so there must be other
> > drills to take this to the game.Jack also demonstrates the golf drill
> > and bag drills that help teach top hand torque which is important on
> > the outside pitch when you ch (TOM....can you finish the thought on the outside pitch?.................thanks tom.....i will study your post as well as going back to re-study RQL's posts.....you are one of the very few people (other than hitters who also throw right /bat left, e.g., rql)who understands the underlying reasons (dominent bottom arm)for my son's problems.....you wouldn't believe how many instructors told him such things as "just get out in front more" (easier said than done), "turn the hips more" (he WAS rotating the hips), and yes, 3 different instructors independently prescribed the FENCE DRILL!!!!....respectfully, grc...... :GRC,3 times been bumped off line right before finishing last chance here goes.I would like to know more of your sons style,and strengths,weaknesses,eg hip rotation,was he linear at one time,and now.I used the tee alot but only because everyone else would go home and I was at peace hitting alone.So there are other drills to work witheg.straight soft toss,pitcher can be very accurate on working certain areas.You say he is rotating but I also heard you talk about a stiff front leg.When I was linear[younger before the change]I think I shifted more onto a firm front side,less rotation before my hips were directed at path of ball up middle and opp. field. Also I had less L in my back leg from this just pushing forward.however from slo mo clips I now see of myself pulling deep in CWS my back leg is in deep L and a flexed knee comes around and pushes back that front hip straightening that leg.I also thought this L in my rear leg helped me get down and get that low strike.Now if the hips are really turning reacting inside and the shoulders are starting to come with them,then our last problem would be that front arm controling the swing too long and dragging the bat through contact with a contact point often at second,to me I thought of myself as being able to stay back and hit it up middle good but I half ass pulled it right to 2nd because it was in a little.What I think gets you over the edge is mentally getting your back side involved after you are on plane with ball from bottom hand ,and yes you need to keep that back elbow in tight letting that rear shoulder driveforward but right before contact I think that top hand then explodes the barrel forward and with a tight elbow you can drive the bat up and into the ball morelifting it some and where I differ from J ack I think on bottom hand torque is in stead of an oarlock on the top hand mine is going forward as the bottom hand is pulling back from tight shoulder turn and strong wrist action.this seems to me to be what I see happening when I see this tight 90L in back elbow then right before impact you see that 90 headed more like the power V and I think its driving forward making the difference not oarlocking ,But dont unload it to early or the torque is gone.That wrist action also I think got many a ground ball into the hole that once went hard right at second.