Posted by: tom.guerry (tom.guerry@kp.org) on Sun May 23 16:14:17 2004

>>> in your diagram you define torque ok but you misinterpret what the hitter id
doing.....you are showing the top hand heading toward the catcher and the bottom hand
heading toward the pitcher....since these are two "opposing" directions you therefore call it
torque...maybe it would be torque if in fact these were two forces (the top and bottom
hands) acting in opposition to each other....however, even though the top hand may be
headed toward the catcher, i don't see how that the top hand is acting in opposition to the
bottom hand....<<<
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi grc
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When the top-hand is pulling back on the handle, the bottom is exerting a
force on the handle in the opposite direction, even when the bottom-hand is stationary.
--- If you push your hand against a wall, the wall must push back with the same force or
be accelerated away. --- However, during initiation of the swing, shoulder rotation is
accelerating the bottom-hand in an arc around toward the pitcher.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Therefore, at initiation, the top-hand is being pulled back toward the catcher
while at the same time shoulder rotation is driving the bottom-hand around toward the
pitcher. The hands are therefore applying force to the handle from opposing directions –
just as the drawing shows. And just as I have described it countless times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jack Mankin
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The force may be going through the hands to the bat but it is not being
generated by the hands. The hands are not generating forces in opposite directions.
Therefore it is very poorly named and it has become a very debatable issue which is
confusing many people. And, why confuse people simply because of the language you
choose?
> > > > >
> > > > > If a boxer lands a right hand was hand torque used?................Makes as much
sense as your wall analogy.
> > > >
> > > > to the contrary, jack's wall analogy is a brilliant one....you have to understand
that the analogy was not to compare pushing a wall with tht...the wall analogy was
specifically directed to my statement that since the bottom hand was not headed toward
the pitcher (in the opposing direction of the top hand headed toward the catcher) there
was no torque...with the wall analogy, jack is simply illustrating that an object such as the
bottom hand does not necessairily have to be moving for there to be an opposing force
present...
> > > >
> > > > "The force may be going through the hands to the bat but it is not being
generated by the hands."....the top hand headed toward the catcher in opposition of the
bottom hand remaining still is indeed a force.....maybe you misinterpret the effect of these
forces.....no one is saying that this force somehow generates a humoungus amount of
energy....this SMALL, albeit important force facilitates the positioning of the hands in
CIRCULAR HAND PATH.....of course we all know how crucial the chp is....
> > > >
> > > > "The hands are not generating forces in opposite directions."....jack's wall
analogy clearly shows his understanding and your misunderstanding of the concept of
torque....
> > > >
> > > > "If a boxer lands a right hand was hand torque used?"..........well, jack, if pushing
a hand against a wall illustrates two forces in opposition to each other, what WOULD be
the difference in that and Teacherman's analogy?........
> > >
> > > A hitter is far better off to let the forces created by the rotation of his body to go to
the bat through the circular hand path and through the hands than he is to torque the bat
with his hands thereby breaking the chain and disconnecting from his power source. A
small but significant difference.
> >
> > good grief...it is the inward turn/bat cock that facilitates the knob-to-the catcher
thing...it is the "torquing" (if we want to call it that)of the bat (the knob heading toward the
catcher thing)that facilitates the chp...it is the chp that facilitates the hip rotation...
> >
> > torquing the bat has nothing to do with disconnecting from the power source...in fact,
it is doing everything just described in sequence and in good form that gets the hips
started ahead of the hands (and without even having to make a conscious effort to think
about the hips), and achieve/maintain connection....i might add that it achieves epsteins
"torque position" without having to through the gyrations described in his tape.....
>
> Get in your stance, cock the bat over your head toward the pitcher, do not apply tht, slot
the elbow and rotate. What happens to the bat head?

The bathead accelerates toward the catcher because of torque applied by the external rotation of the back arm in the shoulder socket plus the internal rotation of the lead arm in the shoulder socket while the torso continues to twist and the back scap continues to load.Hands stay back as knob hooks.There is a push/pull type action provided through the hands,not generated by the hands.