Posted by: BHL (Knight1285@aol.com) on Tue May 18 01:20:23 2004

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> Hi Tom,
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> It is not necessary to have a shared swing model in order to define phrases such as scap load, bow arch and the whip effect. One wonders how someone (and not necessarily you Tom) who advocates these terms cannot 1) provide a clear definition of the term, 2) generally state the body parts involved in the movement, and 3) state exactly what forces are applied to the bat as a result of movement. I'll at least give BHL credit for putting his ideas on the table for all to judge; however, the same is not true for all. Nyman's thread, "Top hand torque versus scapula loading," rambled for 24 printed pages, yet it failed to address these questions above. Despite 24 pages of superfluous commentary, Nyman not only demonstrated an inability to precisely define his own theories, but he also demonstrated a complete lack of understanding for THT/BHT, as he confused, misstated, and misapplied the terms.
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> In contrast, whether you agree with the theories presented here or not, at least Jack Mankin and BatSpeed.com have stepped up to the plate, and defined the forces that act on the bat through descriptions, pictures, mini clips and instructional videos. Though a handful of people that frequently post on this site cannot seem to understand (or have an agenda not to understand) linear and rotational, BHT and THT, etc., as defined by Mankin, the vast majority of viewers are able to understand and apply the terms that Mankin has defined.
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> Unfortunately, thus far, the same cannot be said for those pushing scap loading, bow arch and whip effect. Perhaps you can help Tom since nobody else seems to be able to answer the questions above. Until that happens, how can an intelligent discussion occur?
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> It is also somewhat disconcerting that some people demand information about the mechanics discussed here, but refuse to provide information about other websites theories. I posed a recent question, which was not answered, as follows: when Nyman states, "Scapula loading is my way of saying rapid horizontal adduction of the shoulder," what shoulder is he referring to on a right handed batter?
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> If he is referring to the front/lead shoulder, then I can pull posts from years ago that describe Mankin’s “Inward turn,” “hiding the hands,” “taking out the slack,” and “Pre launch torque” to describe this movement. If scap load is still different, then someone needs to state why. If Nyman is referring to the back shoulder, then we’ll have an interesting debate on linear/rotational mechanics. Lastly, if Nyman was confused and meant horizontal ABduction of the rear shoulder, then we are getting into whether it mimics “Top hand torque,” “Inward turn,” “hiding the hands,” “taking out the slack,” “Pre launch torque,” and slotting/lowering the rear elbow (which if applied correctly causes the top hand to place torque on the bat as the elbow lowers, as clearly observed in the swings of Pujols, Piazza and A-Rod, whereas others like Sheffield and Bonds are easier to see because they actively torque the bat back and forth during the windup).
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> Thanks for your anticipated assistance Tom. If anyone else can help, we would look forward to the clarification.
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> Brian
> BatSpeed.com
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Hi Brian and Tom,

I think that Tom pieced together swing mechanics--drawn from a litany of sources--superbly. From the point of a poet, writer, and researcher, I believe that his information, to borrow a term from Paul, is not "cobbled together" in piecemeal, but interwoven so smoothly that one concept flows into the next seamlessly. He should be commended for his careful usage of parenthetical documentation, which makes it easier for others to trace a source, and decide if they need supplementary information for the purposes of comprehension.

Also, while Tom Guerry is waiting to supply Batspeed.com with information of scapula loading, I will attempt to describe the concept promulgated by Paul.

Brian, according to the Setpro site, loading the back scap means rolling the back shoulder blade (i.e., opening it) towards the third baseline.

Conversely, loading the front scap means rolling the front shoulder (i.e., closing it) towards the first baseline.

Perhaps, Nyman's major point is that what looks like "shrugging" is really closing the front shoulder, and opening the back shoulder.

Yet, this is my interpretation, and I could be mistaken about this concept.

Personally, I do not "load my scap."

I guess we will all have to wait for Tom's response to crystallize the abstraction.

Sincerely,
BHL