Posted by: RQL () on Mon Oct 9 17:28:45 2000

>>> JACK,WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOUR HAND PATH IS MORE OFONE THAT THE KNOB STARTS HIGH THEN DROPS DOWN SOME BEFORE GETTING ON PLANE OF BALL AND THEN COMES FORWARD.LIKE ABC AS OPPOSED TO WHAT I CALL AN AX SWING LIKE A-C.WHICH ONE KEEPS YOU ON THE PLANE OF THE BALL ANDWHICH ONE IS QUICKER TO THE BALL.<<<
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> > > > Hi RQL
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> > > > I really not sure what the A, B, or C hand positions are. But I can say that the hands should remain in the swing plane from launch position to contact. --- If you would explain the ax swing I would be happy to reply.
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> > > > Jack Mankin
> > > > SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION ,I CALL THE ABC ,WHERE THE HANDS ARE A IN YOUR STANCE,THEN GO TO B AFTER THE STRIDE THIS IS AN AREA DOWN BELOW A" PROBALY YOUR LAUNCH AREA THEN FORWARD TO C" WHICH IS CONTACT.SOME HAVE A STROKE THAT GOES FROM THE A"POSITION TO THE C"POSITION LEAVING OUT B".A-C IS LIKE AN AX SWING HIGH COMING DOWN AND FORWARD TO CONTACT BALL OR A TREE.WHICH WOULD YOU BELIEVE IS QUICKER AND WHICH IS LONGER ON PLANE OF THE BALL.ALSO WOULD YOU CONSIDER A FLY BALL THAT STAYS IN THE PARK BETTER THAN A HARD GROUND BALL.CONSIDERING THEY BOTH TO BE NOT HIT RIGHT ON THE GOOD PART OF THE BALL.
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> > RQL-
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> > I would think of the ABC's of Jack's swing as follows:
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> > A-hands in stance.Will be low,will "load" up and in behind head during stride to B.
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> > B-hands at launch.Launch is when torso starts turning forward as result of "go"decision.Preswing ritual is same for given pitcher on a given day until part way into the stride.The earliest launch will occur is on the inside heater just as stride foot touches down from toe to heel.Launch will be delayed by front leg flex for offspeed/outside stuff,keeping hands back.Prior to launch while stride is underway as hands are loading up and in,bend at waist/posture adjustment/tilt is made so that things are on plane at launch.
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> > C-Hands stay on plane from launch to contact as they move along a radius perpendicular to the upper torso
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> RQL-
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> A few more thoughts on your questions about plane and quick to the ball.
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> Just as there are different kinds of ABC's,there are different kind of axe swings.
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> I think the ABC/axe swing you describe is like you would swing an axe to split wood.This is also what some refer to as a 2-piece swing.Part one is to rotate the body(hips and torso) while the arms/hands remain quiet.Part 2 is swinging down(A-C) by extending the arms as the knob is approaching the contact plane.This is an arm swing where you end up slowing shoulder rotation once the way has been cleared for the arms to swing.There is no ongoing connection to the power of body rotation.Batspeed is low.The swing path may be long or short to the ball depending on how the player executes this.The problem I see is that the hitter(and usually their coach)is under the illusion that this is the way to execute a power swing.They try to generate power by strong body rotation,thinking this can be whipped through the arms to the bat(this whipping type transfer mechanic is not effective).However,the body wants to create a power(maximum batspeed)swing by swinging the bat in a plane perpendicular to the upper spine.This is a different plane from the A-C arm swing.The arms end up fighting the torso turn and the swing is degraded.This is a low speed placement swing which is more likely to fail(increased spatial error)the more you try to swing hard.To be an effective swing,it needs to be a short chopping arm swing where body motion is not excessive enough to interfere with spatial accuracy.The plane does not match the pitch plane well and contact can be improved by shortening the swing as much as possible.So you can make this quick to the ball only by shortening the chop .Quickness will not come from batspeed since even the strongest arms do not have the horsepower to do this.
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> Jack's swing is more like swinging the axe to cut down a big tree.You use the body to generate axe speed.You use efficient transfer mechanics(flex out of front arm,circular handpath,torquing axe about a point between the hands)to swing the axe perpendicular to the upper spine and the hands are holding on to a maximully accelerated axe at contact to avoid the shock of driving them into the tree trunk.The key is to have the swing on plane by the time of launch with the appropriate posture adjustments.So for hitting the plane best matches the path of the pitch.How quick this is to the ball is determined by batspeed,and by a miracle of physics,the faster you execute this the less the timing error.The length of the swing is minimized by reducing the swing radius-rotate around spine as vertical axis,back elbow near side until contact.This may or may not be quicker to the ball than the wood splitting swing depending on how you execute that(length of A-C and how much arm strength is converted to batspeed).The plane of the tree felling swing is a much better match to the pitch trajectory in all cases.The A-C vs A-B-C question becomes a non issue since in the power swing,A-B happens in the preswing. TOM,good stuff and I go along with most of it,but as we had the discussion at setpro though the A-B is preswing movement its movement that must be controled and its dynamic movement with changing directions of the hand and seems to be what can cause more problems to get on the plane of the ball correctly in preswing for young hitters just learning.all that preswing movement is suppose to get the bat on the plane of the ball before the swing starts I think you said.Kids seem to have trouble controling the front side with all this back side movement and if the knob is at the pitcher and they go at the ball with a launch from A to contact it seems there is less room for error.Like the bunt again the least movement the most accuracy the least power.I think boggs,gwynn,rose,cobb,carew got so many singles because they had a shorter swing to a contact point often further back and got to wait longer to see it longer and fooled less so more consistency with short game.They may all been able to hit 20HRs a year but I bet they would have considerable less B.A. and hits.why does most not all but most power hitters hit below 300 each year,there must be some connection even at the M.L. level.now I know you can start throwing alot of names out who recently have started hitting high average and power but I believe there are other factors to consider.Guys are getting bigger and stronger and new ways to train their muscles and creatine,ect. so yes this rotation swing which has been around for a long time is being used by more bigger and stronger guys and the field stays the same size so many fly balls hit 10 years ago are now turning into fly ball homeruns,and would be outs of the past are now hits ,rbi's,and higher B.A. All this is great, my whole idea is with young kids if we can teach little kids the basics of the swing even the rotation swing but one with less dynamics in preswing maybe they can control it and have a basis to build upon as they get older. Last note I use to cut trees down alot for my training and I believe you use both swings to create the notch.The a-c coming down then the a-b-c a little up, together they make a side ways v or notch in the tree.I dont know why i never thought of using the a-b-c swing instead on the field.RQL