Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Posted by: Doug () on Thu Apr 22 20:06:49 2004

<< > >
> > Doug>>>
>
> Doug,
>
> You have identified two hitters out of thousands who qualify as a good batting coach. As such, I think my statement that "most" good hitters do not necessarily teach good batting mechanics was right on.
>
> Moreover, you must understand that my post primarily related to teachings in the early 1990s and prior. As I indicated, players and coaches are now reviewing videos of themselves and other great hitters, as well as the interent and speaking with others who have reviewed video and the interent, and are now understanding the swing.
>
> I surmise that you believe in the "juiced ball theory" or you have not compared the incredible rise in offensive stats over the last 10 years. This was not done by magic. The transformation occurred because most players now understand how to execute swing mechanics because players and coaches are now understanding rotational swing mechanics. However, as I indicated, for decades and decades, the good hitters to which you referred taught weak linear mechanics. While I could probably identify 5-10 hitters today who are primarily linear, I could have named 50-100 in 1980s and 25-50 in the 1990s. This again is no coincidence. Linear mechanics are not effective and the understanding of this fact has drastically changed over the last 10 years. Prior to the 1990s, many good hitters and coaches advocated that you had to be born with good swing mechanics because they did not understand how to teach good batting mechanics. Whether you want to believe that the change occurred because the good hitters/coaches suddenly figured it out in the 1990s or for some other reason is up to you, but I believe that the change began with individuals who devoted time and effort to understanding the swing with the assistance of video analysis, and then applying that understanding on the ball fields. And I am certainly not trying to defend Jack Mankin - his theories stand on their own - even though many like to diminish his credibility by suggesting that he has not played professional ball. In fact, I was responding to your post to BHL, suggesting that we should not give any credance to his thoughts because he is a paper nerd. I do not agree with BHL's new theory, but I think that we should find stronger arguments than claiming that non-pro players who are trying to develop an idea are nerds.
>
> Brian
> BatSpeed.com
>

Brian, I identified two guys who have written books and done tapes on hitting. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, only Jack, Epstein, Nyman and the guy with the A's have internet sites on the swing. Because most pro coaches don't have sites does not mean they don't coach hitting well.The pro coaches have state of the art cameras and computers to work with. Have you checked out former major leaguer Don Slaught and his program on hitting along with his video? He is now liscenced with MLB and this year will film them all from all the angles. All the guys in the big leagues were taught things in the minor leagues by pro coaches,so someone is doing a good job other than the folks we know on the internet. As far as the power increasing in the past 10-12 years, all you have to do is look at the bodies of the players. I "know" that the ball is livelier now than it was in the past and I know that the quality maple bats have helped too. The swings are better, and the guys are 220 lbs of muscle. Williams book came out in 1970......long before the VCR and computer clips, and for about $12 it is still available.As far as comparing the players of today with the players of yesteryear, that is my job and I do it every day. As far as guys learning how to "hit", they do it in the batters box. They can learn how to swing with instruction, but they only learn how to hit between the lines. I don't know who is picking on Jack, but it is not me.......I like what he does, and that is why I post on this site. If I did not, I would not post. You won't find a post from me on the A's guys site. Jack is not trying to reinvent the wheel, he is teaching good solid mechanics. BHL is trying to reinvent the wheel. His idea of trying to pull every pitch is a pitchers dream come true.

Doug

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> <<<Brian, You talk about good hitters not being good coaches. Williams and Epstein were both major leaguers, and were/are fine hitting coaches. You talk about the good hitters teaching a linear swing.......name me a major league hitter who has a linear swing. You talk about the linear mechanics being taught by the pros, but I can't think of any linear swings in the big leagues......can you? Who taught the pros? Another thing.......you don't need to stick up for Jack Mankin. He is a fine hitting coach and people can figure that out on their own without your help. Before you pick on the pro coaches, you should check into more of them and what they teach. Not all hitting coaches have internet sites or write books. You ever talk to Bobby Bonds about hitting? AS far as good hitters figuring things out in the batters box......that is what they do. 
> > > 
> > >                      Doug>>>
> > 
> > Doug, 
> > 
> > You have identified two hitters out of thousands who qualify as a good batting coach.  As such, I think my statement that "most" good hitters do not necessarily teach good batting mechanics was right on.  
> > 
> > Moreover, you must understand that my post primarily related to teachings in the early 1990s and prior.  As I indicated, players and coaches are now reviewing videos of themselves and other great hitters, as well as the interent and speaking with others who have reviewed video and the interent, and are now understanding the swing.  
> > 
> > I surmise that you believe in the "juiced ball theory" or you have not compared the incredible rise in offensive stats over the last 10 years.  This was not done by magic.  The transformation occurred because most players now understand how to execute swing mechanics because players and coaches are now understanding rotational swing mechanics.  However, as I indicated, for decades and decades, the good hitters to which you referred taught weak linear mechanics.  While I could probably identify 5-10 hitters today who are primarily linear, I could have named 50-100 in 1980s and 25-50 in the 1990s.  This again is no coincidence.  Linear mechanics are not effective and the understanding of this fact has drastically changed over the last 10 years.  Prior to the 1990s, many good hitters and coaches advocated that you had to be born with good swing mechanics because they did not understand how to teach good batting mechanics.  Whether you want to believe that the change occurred because the good hitters/coaches suddenly figured it out in the 1990s or for some other reason is up to you, but I believe that the change began with individuals who devoted time and effort to understanding the swing with the assistance of video analysis, and then applying that understanding on the ball fields.  And I am certainly not trying to defend Jack Mankin - his theories stand on their own - even though many like to diminish his credibility by suggesting that he has not played professional ball.  In fact, I was responding to your post to BHL, suggesting that we should not give any credance to his thoughts because he is a paper nerd.  I do not agree with BHL's new theory, but I think that we should find stronger arguments than claiming that non-pro players who are trying to develop an idea are nerds.
> > 
> > Brian
> > BatSpeed.com
> > 
> 
> Brian, I identified two guys who have written books and done tapes on hitting. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, only Jack, Epstein,  Nyman and the guy with the A's have internet sites on the swing. Because most pro coaches don't have sites does not mean they don't coach hitting well.The pro coaches have state of the art cameras and computers to work with. Have you checked out former major leaguer Don Slaught and his program on hitting along with his video? He is now liscenced with MLB and this year will film them all from all the angles. All the guys in the big leagues were taught things in the minor leagues by pro coaches,so someone is doing a good job other than the folks we know on the internet. As far as the power increasing in the past 10-12 years, all you have to do is look at the bodies of the players. I "know" that the ball is livelier now than it was in the past and I know that the quality maple bats have helped too. The swings are better, and the guys are 220 lbs of muscle. Williams book came out in 1970......long before the VCR and computer clips, and for about $12 it is still available.As far as comparing the players of today with the players of yesteryear, that is my job and I do it every day. As far as guys learning how to "hit", they do it in the batters box. They can learn how to swing with instruction, but they only learn how to hit between the lines. I don't know who is picking on Jack, but it is not me.......I like what he does, and that is why I post on this site. If I did not, I would not post. You won't find a post from me on the A's guys site. Jack is not trying to reinvent the wheel, he is teaching good solid mechanics. BHL is trying to reinvent the wheel. His idea of trying to pull every pitch is a pitchers dream come true.
> 
>                     Doug

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This is known as hitting for the cycle in a game?
   Single, double, triple, homerun
   Four singles
   Three homeruns
   Three stikeouts