Posted by: Teacherman () on Sun Apr 18 09:30:16 2004

Sunday, April 18, 2004 @ 8:00 am EST
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> >>> Let’s go back to rotating the shoulders back to about the 65-degree position. If my arms and wrists are frozen when I rotate back, my bathead may be 10+ inches farther out, BUT THE BATHEAD IS NOW TRAILING MY HANDS. This contact position would be “hitting the ball late”, or “inside-outing”, or “hitting to the opposite field”.
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> > Again, the example you gave (shoulders to 105 degrees, back arm in “L”) is for a pitch from the middle-in.
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> > Try your example (shoulders to 105 degrees) for a pitch on the outside in the black. Hit that pitch even with the lead knee. What did you have to do? Even pull back to 65 degrees. <<<
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> > Hi Ray
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> > Obviously, if you rotate the bat-head away from the contact point, it will be behind the hands. -- I will need to draw you a more complete picture. Take the contact position I outlined for pitches middle-in. Back-shoulders at 105, back-arm in “L” position, bat perpendicular with “sweet spot” of the bat (contact point) against a post or bag. Now, rotate your shoulders (around a stationary axis) back to 65-degree open position while keeping the bat against the post. The bat stays perpendicular to the ball and slides out along the post as you rotate back.
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> > As the back-shoulder rotates back around toward the post (to the 65-degree position), it shoves the lead-arm and lead-hand about 10+ inches toward the post. This causes the sweet-spot of the to slide 10+ inches out past the post for outside coverage. As you rotate toward the 65-degree position the lead-arm will cast farther from the chest.
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> > The shoulders only rotate 65 or so degrees while the lead-arm cast away from the chest to reach outside pitches. Keeping the lead-arm across the chest and rotating to the 105 degree position pulls the hands into a tight path for pitches middle-in.
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> > In my first reply to you I stated, “I sense that there is no prove I could offer that would satisfy you. Therefore, I suggest we just say as gentlemen, that we agree to disagree and let it go at that.” I am sure this post or the next ten post will not bring our position on the swing any closer. – Therefore, I say again, let us say as gentlemen, that we agree to disagree and let it go at that.
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> > Jack Mankin
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> Jack,
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> And again I must say that I will NOT agree to disagree, and let it go at that. Is that the result we (readers/posters of your website) are to expect from any open forum debate you may have with Paul Nyman?
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> You say, “I sense that there is no prove I could offer that would satisfy you.”
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> I say, “Exactly, what proof have you offered?”
> A simulated dry swing to a heavy bag, or reviews of videos from your archive that only you can look at, with “…maybe…” percentages, and hitter’s you can recall “…off the top of my head” or a response to Doug with “…no data to support it…”.
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> How can we “…agree to disagree…” when you have not answered my three questions (after I have specifically asked you to PLEASE do so). How can we disagree about something to which you have not responded?
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> I’m sorry Jack, but what we are discussing is too important an issue to simply just “…let it go…” Hell, you thought enough about it (hitting the outside pitch) to consider adding an article to your “Truism or Fallacy” list (thread started by you - ‘hitting the outside pitch’ on Fri Dec 8 10:15:23 2000 , a thread to which you asked questions but never gave your viewpoint).
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> TO WIT:
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> >>>Obviously, if you rotate the bat-head away from the contact point, it will be behind the hands. -- I will need to draw you a more complete picture. Take the contact position I outlined for pitches middle-in. Back-shoulders at 105, back-arm in “L” position, bat perpendicular with “sweet spot” of the bat (contact point) against a post or bag. Now, rotate your shoulders (around a stationary axis) back to 65-degree open position while keeping the bat against the post. The bat stays perpendicular to the ball and slides out along the post as you rotate back.<<<
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> I have tried against a post. I have marked the post (contact point). I have marked my bat (pieces of tape at the sweet spot [5 inches in from bathead] and a piece of tape every inch above and below that point).
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> Three (3) things happened:
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> 1. The “L” came out of my rear leg. My rear leg straightened (was forced to, to maintain contact and rotate shoulders back to 65 degrees), thus changing my axis (stake driven through head and out the butt).
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> 2. My top hand wrist had to roll to maintain contact point.
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> 3. The most I could get was 5 inches unless my head went forward toward the contact point (body tilt).
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> Am I doing something wrong?
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> Further, please reconcile (ala Teacherman) these statements by you:
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> “As the back-shoulder rotates back around toward the post (to the 65-degree position), it shoves the lead-arm and lead-hand about 10+ inches toward the post.”
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> With
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> “The great hitters can successfully pull outside pitches because they do not extend the hands as they initiate the swing.”
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> And
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> “As you rotate toward the 65-degree position the lead-arm will cast farther from the chest.”
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> With
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> “Ray, keep in mind that with rotational mechanics there is no extension of the lead-arm.”
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> ray porco
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You go, Ray!