Posted by: Teacherman () on Mon Mar 8 07:11:49 2004

Jack, I can understand why you want to ban the term "scap load", considering all of the insults outsiders have made, promoting other web sites, etc. But if you could just bear with me, I would, if I could, once and for all, get a brief analysis from someone who is familiar with both terms as to what, if any difference there is.
> > > > With all due respect, I do not wish to hear from Teacherman (nothing personal, Teacherman, it's just that you seem to be lightening rod for negative discourse that tends to degenerate into a match of insults). I would prefer to hear from Jack, Tom, BHL or RQL. Thanks
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> > > robby, i know you didn't put in a request for a response from me but i'll take a hack at it anyway......before trying to understand either term it's important to understand some basics....
> > >
> > > as williams said, hips lead the way, except he didn't say how to do it...many coaches parot williams but they also do not say how to do it...this leads many hitters to believe that they therefore have to make a conscious effort to actually turn the hips before starting the swing movement, and there are even coaches who come up with "drills" to try and accomplish this!!!!
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> > > wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!.....call it human nature, phisiology, anatomical or whatever, but immediately upon DECISION TO SWING, it is INSTINCTIVE to first move the body part which is holding the striking instrument (arms)...it is NOT instinctive to move the hips.....
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> > > but yet hips SHOULD lead the way!!!....contradiction?....what you have to do is use a method by which the hip movement will come AFTER the initial ARM movement following decision, but yet allow the hips to be ahead of the arms.....
> > >
> > > technique to accomplish this: BAT COCK!!!......yes, the greater the angle of bat cock, the longer it will take for the top hand (knob) to start moving toward the catcher, so that even though, upon decision the arm starts the initial movement, the hips then (without even thinking about it) start their movement....so by time top hand (knob)is headed toward catcher hips have already started...
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> > > how does top hand torque and scap load fit in with this?...i am not sure....i THINK (after all these years at the distinguished batspeed.com)tht is an extension of my theory....jack says what should happen (knob toward the catcher, chp), and i think i am describing an easy way to accomplish this...
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> > > scap load?...well, i have been at setpro off and on for several years...tom, rql and good old virgil, we had some good discussions over there....tom can correct me if i am wrong, but i think scap load is nothing more than the inward turn/taking hands back/bat cock...not that i am suggesting that "nothing more" means insignificant...to the contrary, quite significant...in fact, in my initial analysis if i had wanted to be even more detailed i would have incorporated the details of what i THINK scap load is.....
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> > > summary: scap load, with sufficient bat cock will enable hips to lead, knob head toward catcher and facilitate chp (and thus achieving tht?)
> >
> > Sorry grc, but I have to take issue with your assumption that because a hitter has the bat in his hands that his first instinct is to move his hands. You've said this a couple of times before and I've ignored it. Maybe that is what the hitter is thinking, but I have video of several young kids of all ages at a camp, just taking their first supervised swings and in everyone of them, the hips move first. These are kids that are just learning. These are kids that haven't even heard hips before the hands. These are kids that are just trying to hit the ball hard. They are not trying to move the hips first.
> >
> > I think it is quite the opposite of what you contend. Proven by video. My take is the body knows/feels that the resistance offered by the bat requires more strength than the hands/arms can supply to accelerate the bat. And if they want to hit the ball hard the body has to help. So, the body helps by first moving the hips.
> >
> > Not saying by any means that the swings of these kids were good. Quite the opposite. Almost all had swings in which their arms took over. But, the first movement on everyone of them was the opening of the hip.
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> agreed, body helps by being ahead of the hands but you completly missed the point about the natural instinct of hands making first movement....sufficient back cock ensures that the first hand movement (VERY shortly before first hip movement) is the uncocking motion toward the catcher , whereas if bat were in the vertical, non-cocked position the initial hand movement would be toward the pitcher....you need to study, not just pick out a few selected phrases....

No, I don't need to study. You continue to say the first hand movement is very shortly before the hips and then you make your conclusion. Problem is, I find your premise is wrong. The hands don't move before the hips in most kids.

How does.....the body helps "by being ahead of the hands" reconcile with.....the hands move first very slightly.