Posted by: tom.guerry (tom.guerry@kp.org) on Fri Mar 5 08:53:05 2004

Good discussion !

This points out the value to others of a direct discussion between Jack and Paul which is where I first started lurking when they were posting at hitting.com along with Jeff Hodge.It doesn't get any better than that.At this point,the ideas are so nuanced/hypotheses so detailed that it may require in person give and take as well as design of lab/field tests.That would be a nice thing if the real world doesn't get in the way (priorities/time pressures/business/ego,etc.)

I have been a believer in Jacks principles from early on.The initial big AHA! was BHT/front shoulder pull back/staying connected.In retrospect.I had always had a back foot rotational swing that broke down because of having to extend the handpath for outside.Once understanding how connection is maintained by the handpath hook,things clicked.If you get and keep this feel/method of staying connected,then you can learn to get the outside pitch the same way by becoming a front foot hitter which I believe is best learned/understood via Epstein's drop an tilt,but then you still have to figure out how exactly to rotate into toe touch before this.

The next big AHA! was getting Jack's first tape and seeing the golf club drill where you can feel the difference in transfer mechanics between golf and hitting.Body torquing is similar in both,but when you use THT in the golf swing you get a shorter swing with quicker acceleration whn the club is torqued at early in the downswing.

The next big AHA had to do with the similarity of throwing and hitting and how Nyman approached the generation and evaluation of hypotheses,including the recognition of the importance of scap loading,especially in throwing.Nyman has underplayed the importance of arm action and scap loading in hitting as compared to the essential role he describes in throwing.I feel that arm action plays a central role in both.The question is,what is scap loading and how do you explain the other key video analysis(the first key being the bat turning back prelaunch) discovered by Troy the batman of evergreen and confirmed by Nyman which is that the hands need to stay ahead of the back elbow on the approach.

My theory is that the universal loading sequence of the back arm in throwing as described by Jeff Hodge is the key.The same motor sequence ideally leads in organizing the swing with the addition of scap loading(how the arm action connects/relates to the torso) which Hodge did not appreciate at that time.

Using Hodge's universal arm sequence and understanding how it fits with scap action so that loading is adequate is one way to explain how the hands stay ahead of the back elbow.Once you understand this sequence,then you can develop and assist in the accurate interpretation of cues,IF this model/hypothesis is accurate.If not accurate,then state another hypothesis and see if it works.

THT happens during part of the scap loading portion of the load/swing.Prelaunch tht/uncocking of the bat is related to the horizontal adduction of the back scap associated with the external rotation of the back arm.

THT at launch is associated with the back scap continuing to load creating the oarlock situation where the top hand stays back with the back shoulder while the bottom hand works around it.The bottom hand works via its connection to the lead shoulder.The lead shoulder is connected to the back shoulder via the "TILT" of the drop and tilt part of the swing that allows the torso/trunk to keep twisting/stretching at initiation and during the chp portion of the swing as the last bit ot xfactor stretch/coiling is produced so that the shoulders are locked to the torso when coil reverses.Coil reverses later in the swing than most think,after the CHP has started perpendicular to the flight of the ball.

The shoulder link is NOT locked if it rushes ahead out of sequence,thus interrupting to last bit of desirable body torque twist(transmission slips).

For the hands to stay ahead of the back elbow,the body has to unwind in sequence from the middle up.The back scap has to stay/continue loading.This means the back scap has to continue to pinch toward the spine and the back elbow has to keep pulling back well INTO the circular handpath/CHP part of the swing.The shoulder joint/complex can only do this(keep loading/connecting) and permit the bat to turn back to the catcher without developing a "BIND" in the shoulder joint(that forces the bathead to extend/fall out of the developing swing plane)if the back arm is free to externally rotate in the shoulder socket as the shoulder blade continues to pinch(prelaunch THT).

If the back shoulder blade continues to pinch,and the back arm keeps pulling back (not disconnecting and drigfting to belly button past slot)until the body has twisted and untwisted in sequence,THEN the hands will stay ahead of the back elbow as the body pulls the locked shoulders around from the front.

Other hypotheses welcome !