Posted by: Jack Mankin (mrbatspeed@aol.com) on Wed Feb 18 18:34:04 2004

>>> Jack,

Saw your post:

"Hi BHL
While reading your statement, I could not help but wonder what response you would get from Paul Nyman or Mike Epstien if you went to their sites and asked to have an open forum (like we have at Batspeed.com) to compare Jack Mankin’s batting principles to theirs.

Personally, I think it takes a lot of gall for someone to come to this site to promote someone else’s theories when neither Mike nor Paul will allow dissenting views on their own sites, at least not in an open forum. I have often told myself that if I can’t take the heat - I should get out of the kitchen. Well, they basically preach to the choir from behind closed doors. – Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest.
Jack Mankin"

And thought I would "stir the pot" a little.

There's a difference between a closed forum and a censored forum. The SETPRO public forums have been closed for quite awhile. Not due to fear of discussing swing issues. But rather because it was taking too much time to maintain the forums to the standard that I felt was necessary.

To my knowledge both you and Mike Epstein censor your forums in that you do not allow posts unless they have been prescreened. I never did that and to my recollection, the only posts that I ever deleted were posts that had no relevance to hitting or pitching (were customer service issues).

And I don't know if you remember, but Mike Epstein posted quite often on the SETPRO web site prior to him opening his own web site/forums. And I had no problem at the time with his because I felt it added value to the discussions. And besides I was not in the business of selling information I was in the business of selling equipment.

Now for the "fun" part.

I propose that if Mike Epstein, Dave Hudgens and yourself are in agreement, that we have a "philosophical debate" on how to swing a bat.

My proposal would is that we have a 4 part series of discussion/debate.

Each web site would host one of these debates.

Each discussion/debate would address a specific pre-determined topic regarding the swing.

Each discussion/debate would begin with a position statement by each of the four participants. And then each participant could present questions to the other three.

Also each debate/discussion would be open to questions from those who visit the web sites specific to the topic under debate/discussion either addressed us all (You, Epstein, Hudgens, and myself) or to a specific individual.

Each discussion debate would last for a specific period of time (several days) and then switch to the next topic on the next prearranged web site.

Those who know me on SETPRO web site also know that I never "shy" away from controversy and good discussion.

I'm ready to begin whenever you and the others are.... ;-)

Paul Nyman <<<

Hi Paul

Welcome to the site. Excellent proposal. Our discussions of the swing could be of great value to both coaches and players alike. If Mike and Dave are agreeable to the format you outlined, I am sure the details can be worked out. Since you have a more personal relationship with Mike and Dave, would you mind contacting them for their approval?

Batspeed.com has always understood that the life-blood of an interesting discussion board is the controversy and debates that stem from posts with varied and opposing viewpoints. Little knowledge is gained from “me to” posts. Therefore, far from discouraging posts that disagree with the site’s batting principles, we encourage them to voice their opinions.

For the first three years the board operated as a completely open discussion board. At that time, the batting principles presented on the site were new and quite provocative to most coaches and players. Although I received many personal insults, not one was deleted as I placed little value on the words of people with that type of character.

However, when the personal attacks started to be directed toward other board participants, we realized that changes had to be made. We decided the posts must be “prescreened” to filter out personal attacks and chat room style bickering which did not advance anyone’s knowledge of the swing. For reasons previously mentioned, we certainly would not delete a post because it contained a viewpoint different than ours.

Paul, I found the debates we had a few years back to be most interesting and enlightening. I am sure those to come will be as well.

Jack Mankin