Posted by: Doug () on Tue Dec 30 06:41:04 2003

>>> It is impossible to launch from the position he launches from without having linear hands/arms. <<<
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> > > > > > > Hi Lamber
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> > > > > > > In regards to your statement above, there is an important question you must ask yourself. – If forces Arod’s hands/arms applies to the bat are linear (straight and inline forward) during launch, what is causing the bat-head to accelerate in an arc back toward the catcher?
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> > > > > > > This would also be a good time for you to answer a question I asked earlier that you failed to respond to. – “Can you (or Paul) explain how a linear force applied to a bat will induce angular displacement of the bat-head?”
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> > > > > > > Jack Mankin
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> > > > > > I have followed this thread with interest. Lamber, you mentioned that there is a difference of 2-3 ft in the contact point. I disagree, as I have 4 extremely good clips of Rodriguez pulling the ball, and he is making contact just a little in front of his lead foot. I have over a 100 clips of Bonds, and actually can find some where he is making a good swing and pulling the ball where he is up to 8-10" in front of his lead foot. Bonds, in the past 3-4 years has moved farther from the plate......he was at one time about 3" from the plate and now is about 8-9" off. A-Rod is about 13-15" off the plate. Bonds made the move, because at the time, his only weakness was a little up and on the inside corner.....he now has that handled.
> > > > > > I feel that A-Rod is a glider who is a rotational hitter. We can put a bunch of rules out that say this and that has to be done or you are not rotational, but that is just arguing for the sake of arguing. For someone to say that A-Rod would be better if he changed is just a wild guess....he is the best hitting shortstop of all time, and if he stays healthy, his stats will prove it. Jack, doesn't the bat head accelerate back towards the catcher on all swings? Where else would the bathead go? A-Rod also will many times make contact with his back foot off the ground too, which means that he has transfered weight over to the front side and was not striding to a balanced position and then rotating. He also has a flexed lead leg at contact.
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> > > > > > Doug
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> > > > > Doug,
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> > > > > It is impossible for a hitter who has his elbow slotted and a hitter who lets his elbow loose (extends to the ball) to hit the same pitch at the same contact point at the right time in their swing. The difference can be up to 2-3'.
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> > > > > Always remember, pitch location and speed have to be considered when studying clips. Location is usually easy to determine. Speed is not.
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> > > > Lamber, The 4 clips I have of A-Rod are from BP, and as a result, he is getting a good pitch to hit and there is no deception going on. His right elbow is slotted and it is not extended at contact. THe difference between him and the other 14 players on position of contact is negligible.I think that you have the same disc.
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> > > > Doug
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> > > Not only should one be cautious when viewing clips that the pitch location and speed are unkown but also be cautious of bp and especially HR derby clips. They aren't the same as game swings.
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> > Lamber, No offense, but if you have to be cautious of game clips and BP clips........what is left? All I said was that A-Rod was getting a good pitch to hit and was not being fooled, and his contact point was similar to the other players. Have you ever seen a swing that meets all of your requirements? Game conditions, exact speed, exact location, the count, what kind of pitch, was the hitter healthy?, who was the pitcher? was he fooled, was the hit and run on, etc. etc. etc. And if you have, please post it.
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> > Doug
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> I never said you have to be cautious of game clips. Those are the ones to review. I said be cautious about making conclusions without knowing location and speed. My only specification is a game swing that I can determine location and speed. Very simple. Very easy.
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> What good is reviewing a HR Derby swing when it is very different from a game swing. The goals are different. Arod's contact point is out front in the clips you're talking about because it always is. He's linear. His hands go to the ball. His arms move his hands forward on every swing. The others you are comparing him to are out front because the goal is to hit a home run and with bp speed pitching they have that luxury.

I have to disagree that a BP swing is different than game swing. The swing you practice is the swing you try and take to the game with you.Watch Luis Castillo take BP and then Barry Bonds.....they both practice what they are best at. One guy chops down on the ball and the other guy practices hitting it in the seats. When the game is on, if you don't put your good swing from BP on the ball it is because you were fooled. I am not interested in watching a major leaguer get fooled.
To figure out the game swing velocity and location, you would have to tape it from TV and 9 times out of 10 the only view you will get is the view from CF.

Doug