Posted by: Lamber () on Sun Dec 21 17:36:49 2003

>>> In case you don't know it, a players maximum batspeed is at extension. I'm sure that's enough to hit a 68 mph fastball out of the park. <<<
> > >
> > > HI Lamber
> > >
> > > A study of the angular rate of displacement of the bat during a rotation swing does not support your contention that maximum bat speed is attained at full extension of the arms. It may be true with linear transfer mechanics where bat-head acceleration occurs later in the swing, but that is not the case with good rotational transfer mechanics.
> > >
> > > But, for the sake of our discussion, let us assume that with rotational mechanics the bat does continue to accelerate as the arms reach toward full extension. In the swing of a Barry Bonds or Sosa, the bat is sweeping past (or pointing at) the pitcher as the arms reach full extension. That means the bat has rotated close to 90 degrees past the contact point for hitting the ball straight-away. The ball will be pulled foul for any degree greater than 20 or 30 degrees past perpendicular to the incoming ball . Therefore, any bat speed attained past that point would be of little value anyway.
> > >
> > > Jack Mankin
> > >
> >
> > Agreed batspeed past the point of contact is useless. This has been discussed on this site many times.
> >
> > Extension is not the proper technique for hitting but it is where a players maximum batspeed is.
> >
> > All you have to do is use your swingmate and swing with your good rotational swing with the elbow slotted and measure the speed.
> >
> > Then, take a swing where you reach extension. You'll see that maximum is with the extension swing. I've done this at least 100 times with different players that I coach. Not one registers a faster batspeed while slotted.
> >
> > It's not a difficult thing to comprehend. The extension swing generates more batspeed but is slower in doing so. It takes too long to get there. It doesn't allow the quickness needed to hit top pitching. So, you keep your elbow slotted, shortening the swing and gaining quickness while still generating sufficient batspeed to hit the ball out of the park.
> >
> > It just happens that a few mlb players do try to hit at extension. Mac and Griffey are two that remain rotational in doing so.
> >
> > Arod clearly extends his arms as a regular part of his swing. (Not just when making adjustments when fooled). His arms unfold at the elbows and the elbow leaves the slot with reguarity. And, he's considered one of the best hitters in the game.
> >
> > Why does he do this? Because he's a Charlie Lau pupil that happens to have exceptional talent. I personally believe he would be even better if he didn't do it. But, I'm not going to tell him so. In fact, at this point, I would change anything.
> >
> > Does that make rotational wrong, just because one hitter in the mlb isn't? No. Clearly rotational is the way to go. But to deny that Arod does not have a linear upper half is asking me to not see what is obvious on EVERY clip I have of him. I rarely see it on other mlb players. If I do, they are fooled and making adjustments. But on Arod it's there EVERY swing.
>
>
> Lamber maybe our discussion has hit on something in Arod's swing. Since you pointed out greated batspeed is acheived at extension, yet it takes longer, Arod might be acheiving more batspeed because his arms are SLIGHTLY farther out front on contact with the inside pitch. His arms are NEVER extended at contact unless his he fooled by some tough offspeed pitch when he was looking fastball. On the outside pitch I see the same form as Vlad and other greats from Arod, just not on the inside pitch.
>
> I have a few pictures of Arod hitting the inside pitch and his upper body is leaning over the plate a little more than most and his right arm is in the "L" position but it is slightly farther out in front than most players. His left arm is slightly flexed like most players' arms on the inside pitch.
>
> Are we hitting on something here or is it just his exceptional talent allows him to do a few things different. Maybe it is just a result of Lau teaching him, or maybe both ?

I have no clips of Arod hitting with the elbow slotted. In the clips where he's hitting a pitch in his happy zone the arms go to extension at contact.

My best guess at what he's doing, from studying the clips, is he's throwing his hands to the ball while maintaining a stationery axis.

I have no explanation as to why he's so good at it. I'm a believer in rotational hitting. But I can't come to a rotational conclusion when watching him hit. He violates what Jack calls transfer mechanics on almost every swing.

As Doug says, Frank Thomas was taught by Hrniak and Arod was taught by Lau. Neither of them are known rotationalists. To label him a rotational hitter is not accurate.

I'm OK with pointing him out as someone outside the box and I'm still comfortable defending the box even though arguably the second best hitter in baseball is linear. Bonds, Sosa, and many many (almost all) others do what Jack teaches.