Posted by: Lamber () on Sat Dec 20 11:58:05 2003

> > > > > > > > > Jack,
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> > > > > > > > > I've find this post one of your best. I have long felt that under a pressure situation that I would be more inclined to rely more on THT, and less on BHT. I find the swing plane is more consistant and adjustments to pitch location far easier with this particular swing. I don't know if this makes sense to you. I swing the bat like you swing that darn golf club quite frankly. A couple of questions for you:
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> > > > > > > > > Would you say that A-Rod and McGwire are more likely to hit the ball further in front, due to the wider swing arc?.
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> > > > > > > > > Due to the wider swing arc, do you believe there is any power loss or possibly more? Or put another way....which style has more batspeed prior to contact?
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> > > > > > > > > Additionally I have noticed that in batting practice I am much more aggressive with my swing, which sometimes has the trail hand pulling back so far that it often times brings the trail arm elbow further back before it returns to the side. However, in competion the move is much more under control. This is why I say for me...80% is a good feel. Is it that I'm 80% on the THT, but the rest of the swing is on auto-pilot?
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> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
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> > > > > > > > > Coach C
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> > > > > > > > There is no questin that there is more batspeed with the wider arc. Problem is, it takes too long to get up to speed. Major league pitching requires a hitter to be quicker than the full extension swing allows. Therefore, most mlb hitters hit with the elbow slotted. We're back to the bat quickness v batspeed question.
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> > > > > > > > Mac and Griffey are a couple of the few mlb hitters that tried to get extension and remain rotational. Arod tries for extension but he's a combination of linear and rotational.
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> > > > > > > > High strike outs are one of the main problems with the extension swing.
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> > > > > > > > However, Mac did hit a few a long way.
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> > > > > > > I feel much quicker with the extension model, but my question is it giving up batspeed.
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> > > > > > > I do not think A-Rod is linear, in fact I consider him as good a rotational hitter as there is...High average, High Power, High OB%, etc....this could not be done with linear mechanics at all in my opinion. The big key is his top hand pulls back, which engages the front side for the rotational swing. Do you believe he's linear because he goes to the ball?
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> > > > > > > Coach C
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> > > > > > There are two components to linear. Upper half and lower half. His lower half is rotational, his upper half is linear. Any time the hands go to the ball with the use of the arms it's linear. Many rotational hitters make linear adjustments for pitch location and off speed. But it is just adjusements, it's not their "good" swing. However, Arod does it all the time. It is his "good" swing. Therefore he's a comination of linear and rotational.
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> > > > > > And, it's physically impossible for you to be quicker with an arm extension swing.
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> > > > > > A red ball is on a 3' string and swinging in a circular path around an axis which is turning at 30mph. A blue ball is on a 6' string and swinging in a circular path around an axis that is turning at 30mph. Which ball is moving faster?
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> > > > > Lamber,
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> > > > > I know you are being helpful and I appreciate it. However, you and I see things differently in A-rod and I'll just agree to disagree.
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> > > > > Respectfully,
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> > > > > Coach C
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> > > > I think we can all agree ARod is one of the best five hitters in the bigs (maybe the best) along with Bonds. Whatever hes doing is working at the highest level of baseball.
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> > > > When I look at his swing a see a lot of Top hand torque to generate a ton of early batspeed, I also see BHT in his swing. These are two of the major components of the rotational swing and they are evident in ARod. At some times I can see him making contact a little out in front, but because he generates so much torque (BHT and THT) he can afford to do that at times. Its probably an affect of working with Lau too since he teaches to go get it on a bent front leg.
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> > > > At contact ARod does not have a completely bent front leg, it is slightly bent to straight during his swings. It is only after he makes contact that he continues through the baseball onto a bent front leg. So hes doing the right things with a his lower body by having a fairly straght and slightly bent front leg at contact.
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> > > > Anyone else with an analysis ? His swing is gorgeous watching it on tv at normal speed.
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> > > Dave A,
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> > > I believe most of your analysis is sound. The only point I take some exception to is that Lau, Jr. teaches to hit off a bent front leg. Not true.
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> > > Charley Sr. had a number of theories expressed in his book "The Art of Hitting 0.300" that didn't reflect what he actually did in practice. Throwing the weight onto the front leg was something he talked about in his book, and actually showed Brett performing in pictures, but it's not something actually reflected in his students. Look at Brett. He gives all the credit to Charley, Sr., yet he exhibited outstanding rotational principles. No question Brett has great top hand torque as well as bottom hand torque. His weight was NOT thrust on the front foot like his book said. You don't hit 300+ homers in the big league that way. Charley Sr. was just trying to explain how someone like Hank Aaron could be the all time leading home run hitter with his back foot often coming off the ground! In other words, back foot hitting is not required for power! Nothing revolutionary today, but it was in those days.
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> > > Charley Jr. has actually backed off somewhat from some of the things his dad said. For example, in his book he talks about rotation about a stationary axis from the head into the ground. Nowhere does he mention throwing weight onto the front leg. He certainly doesn't teach hitting off a bent front leg.
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> > > Charley Jr. has been teaching A-Rod on and off since high school, so the guy has to be doing something right. As some of you are aware, A-Rod came back to Charley Jr. after this years all-star break. You might recall that during the All-star home run contest A-Rod was terrible. A couple of people on this message boards noted that A-Rod's swing had mechanical flaws. However, after the break he was fantastic, ending up with the MVP award. That says something for Charley Jr.
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> > > This isn’t meant to be an endorsement of Charley Jr’s methods or explanations. I do believe, however, that he teaches a lot more rotational technique than he lets on. His explanations certainly aren’t as scientifically clear or correct as Jack’s, but it is hard to argue with results. For my money, I’m with Coach C. I think A-rod has got one of the very best swings in baseball. His ability to hit for average and power to all fields is as good as it gets. I sure hope my son gets a swing like his.
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> > > -JJA
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> > Arod hits with a linear upper half. Video shows it. You can't deny it. Hands to the ball extension swing.
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> Lamber he has the same form at contact as every great hitter accept his arms are a few inches farther out in front tops on a few pitches. This means to generate the bat speed needed to hit the ball as far as he does by hitter a tad bit farther out in front he could not just rely on a rotational lower half. He must use both forms of torque to create the batspeed he does. I remember a video clip i saw of him hitting a HR off steve sparks I believe, it was to right center and it cleared about 10 rows. You cant hit a 68 mph pitch that far without creating a ton of batspeed. He has a rotational swing that has a few different things in it than most players, but nonetheless it is rotational.

Dave A

In case you don't know it, a players maximum batspeed is at extension. I'm sure that's enough to hit a 68 mph fastball out of the park.

And, I have not made the claim that there is no top hand or bottom hand torque in his swing.

He clearly has a linear upper half. To deny it is like telling your wife you didn't cheat on her when she caught you in the act.

Watch the video. He is very different than 95% of all other mlb players. Doesn't mean rotational is wrong. I'm a big believer in rotational hitting. But, Arod is a combination of linear and rotational.

And, could you explain how his arms get a few inches further out in front than everyother hitter? I can. It's because he takes his hands to the ball which is a linear move.