Posted by: rql () on Tue Dec 16 12:18:54 2003

>>> Jack,
> > > >
> > > > Do you see this swing differently than I? I see the entire foot coming down together. I do not see emphasis on the ball of the foot at all. His hip rotation is explosive because the lead hip-socket has locked at foot plant. Do you agree? Look it how at finish he's on the heel.
> > > >
> > > > Thing of beauty isn't it. <<<
> > > >
> > > > Hi Coach C
> > > >
> > > > It is inconsistent to say that the body rotates around a stationary axis while at the same time claiming that it is the forward movement of the body against a hip-socket that generates the rotation.
> > > >
> > > > During my study of the baseball swing, I gathered data by charting over 3000 swings. During this time I discovered that while charting video clips, I was not seeing 100 percent of the batter’s (and the bat’s) trajectories. In other words, there were gaps between each frame where the batter’s movements were not shown.
> > > >
> > > > The reason for this is that video works at 30 frames per second (1/30 second each) while the camera’s shudder speed (opening) is normally set at 1/60 sec. This means the shudder is only open 50 percent of the time for each frame. For most motion study work this presents no problem. But for movements of short duration, such as when the wrist starts to roll, or toe touch to heel drop, it may show up in a particular frame or it may not.
> > > >
> > > > For this and other reasons, I find it best not to make decisions based on a single clip. Below is some information regarding how I gathered data for my study.
> > > >
> > > > ##
> > > >
> > > > The study covered nine years and literally thousands of hours. The first two years I spent charting the swings of 185 professional players. I would video tape games shown on television and replay the swings back in frame by frame action. By placing a piece of clear plastic over the screen I was able to trace the movement of each part of the body and the bats reaction for each video frame of the swing. From the time the swing was initiated to contact required from 4 to 6 frames depending on the mechanics of the batter.
> > > >
> > > > When I started the study, I made a sign and hung it over my desk. It read " Have no preconceived theory, report only what you observe." To make sure I correctly identified a players swing mechanics, I charted 15 swings (at good pitches to hit) of each player over a two year period. I then devised a system whereby I could identify players according to the characteristics of their mechanics. I used 39 different mechanical characteristics and developed 12 swing classifications that players fit into. It was truly amazing how close the performance stats were for players with the same classification. There was other very interesting findings I made during the charting phase of the research and I will discuss them with you when those subjects arise.
> > > >
> > > > Jack Mankin
> > >
> > > I very much value your opinion, but I too have no preconceived notions....and my success in teaching hitters is what drives me. Science is wonderful and, quite frankly it only feeds our obession to be perfect, but none the less, the only thing that matters is whether the hitter is getting better. I've been studying the golf swing/baseball swing/tennis swing my entire life....and unlike you I had preconceived notions. So many years were wasted in trying to drive home a point or looking for something that would validate my original thoughts. The only measure is what my hitters will become. So you'll have to wait a few more years, but I'll let you know. Let the record show that you are good for baseball, but I don't think you are exactly right in the teaching of your ideas.
> > >
> > > I know you live in So-Cal, maybe you would consider meeting me, so that you could educate me more. Or I could show you my ideas.
> > >
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Coach C
> >
> > >I think we all can see different things even in freeze frame because I see the toe lower than the heel as it approaches the ground then I see lead toe where I think it it touching with like a small white line at the heel which I think is daylight from the lights then I see the heel come down hard in next frame.Other clips of Bonds show toe/heel sequence better from other angles but he has a more flat approach in the toe/heel sequence,not as much angle of toe 1st as some hitters do,I also think 60fps would show a better detail.I think the focus should be on the core to begin rotation but if there is a good reason to have toe 1st,it is so when the hips start turning the lead foot can turn freely on the toe as it comes around ,just like the back foot how as the knee drives down and in the heel comes up so the toe can spin freely,I also think this is why you see the lead toe come up at the end as rotation in the follow thru can finish off.If the whole foot was down with the lead foot closed at beginning of swing all that rotation of the core could rip your knee out as the front and back cleats bite in at once.
>
> Some thoughts on your statement, "If the whole foot was down with the lead foot closed at beginning of swing all that rotation of the core could rip your knee out as the front and back cleats bite in at once."
>
> This is why we open the lead foot 10 to 45 degrees to the pitcher during the stride, as opposed to golf. In addition, the rotation of the lead foot through the ball (sometimes), is to avoid strain in the lead knee. Tiger woods just recently had knee surgery to repair damage caused by the strain in his golf swing. Since then he gets less distance.
>
> I certainly am not saying that the lead toe does not get down first....it does, but only because it wins the race to the ground over the front heel. There is no pause on offspeed pitches between the lead toe and the lead heel. That would severly hamper a smooth flowing rotational swing.
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> By the way I record at 60fps.
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> I agree the core is where the focus should be, but the feet paint a picture.
>
> RQL, do we hit with our weight between the legs or on top of the legs? What does the term "stay back" or "keep the weight back" mean to you? Are they terms that you use ever?
>
> I knew I'd get ya going, nice to see your hanging around!!
>
> Coach C
>>Coach C.,I would say that the swing can stop momentarily with the toe down heel up on offspeed pitches but not always.On certain mental plans you may have to be quick to get the foot down for the fb and then you read off speed and I would for 1 drive my toe to the ground to keep the weight back until I was ready to fire and then heel down and fire.Does this disrupt rhythm ,absolutely but you can still hit the ball very hard while protecting the plate when they hang a curve.Sometimes The read of offspeed is read earlier and the stride and toe touch can be delayed or slowed to keep most of the rhythm.Ultimately getting the pitch your looking for creates the best rhythm and flow to the swing.Boggs also did this stopping the flow of the swing as well to adjust to speed quite well.
I would say I hit between the legs not on top of them,the words stay back means to let the ball come to you before initiating the swing,many drift to the ball or go out and get it and pull pitches that should go up the middle or oppo gap.When I use stay back I reinforce my meaning by saying let the ball come to you and hit the back of it.