Posted by: Pro_Hitter (andygreen29@hotmail.com) on Wed Nov 5 09:14:31 2003

Tom,
> > >
> > > I've always been interested in how the lead arm folds in the
> > baseball swing? Would you say that hands hitters fold there
> > lead arm differently then good rotational hitters. Years ago when
> > my Son was young I was very dissapointed with how he finished
> > the swing.....meaning it didn't look like mine. For a while I
> > surmized that in order to get to that position there must be
> > something going on in the swing that caused it, thus we spent
> > many hours addressing what I thought was a problem. Then
> > about a year ago I discovered that maybe his differences were
> > actually a strength, so I let him do what he felt was natural (even
> > though it appeared funny to me). Low and behold the kid went
> > off at the plate. Many great hitting instructors will look at follow
> > through as a sign of what occured earlier in the swing, I've done
> > that a lot more lately and now percieve that my Son had it right all
> > along. This really was my motivation for putting both our swings
> > up. I think my way could be incorrect, but I can do it his way...it's
> > just so foreign for at first. If you look at my swing watch how the
> > the lead arm folds, it's different than mine. Does this make
> > sense and do see any relevence in the follow through with how
> > the arms finish, particularly with the elbow fold? Look it how
> > deep the ball get's in on my Son and how more in front my hit is.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Coach C
> >
> > Coach
> >
> > These are all very nice swings.
> >
> > I asssume you are talking about the difference between you and
> > the switch hitter son,is that right ?
> >
> > I think the main thing that accounts for the difference you see is
> > that your son loads better and brings the bat to contact with full
> > torso turn.You crash into foot plant a little,If you look at your
> > positions at front heel drop,your torso has already started while
> > your sons is still back.Then you have to disconnect early with
> > more arm extension making contact more out front and a
> > somewhat low follow through with earlier roll,but not bad for an
> > old guy(hahaha).
> >
> > Look at the clips at Nick's youthbaseball page and compare both
> > of you to the open side shots of righties.The pros keep the
> > hands/torso back even longer(more x-factor) and bat is cocked/
> > centered back more for them than your son.It's a spectrum.
>
> coach-
>
> Thanks for putting your clip up here.In light of rql's analysis below and Teacherman's here,I will speculate a little more on "causation",although causation can be extremely tricky.
>
> First,nice swing !
>
> As rql says,there is lack of hip cock.This is similar to breaking the hands wrong for the overhead throw.Break the hands wrong and you are dead.Same for hitting.Never cock the hips and you can't get a quick/full enough torso turn to drive the bat via the good "transfer mechanics" that Jack has noted.Things like "hip cock" and "scap load",however, are not just single body part motions,they are complexly/exactly coordinated/orchestrated motions of the whole body.
>
> In doing analysis and diagnosis and considering treatment,it's not enough to say what isn't right.You can't just change a habit by avoiding doing something,you have to replace it with something "positive" and see how it works.To begin with,you have to get the hip cocked,and this includes the synchronized internal rotation of the back arm and lead leg.When you feel these work together to get the hip cocked,the whole body is adequately coordinated and good timing is posible.In video review,the lead leg action is the clearest sign of this,but the hitter should also have the synchronized feel of the back arm internally rotating.
>
> Now you have to retain hip cock into toe touch.You can't do this by just trying to think about keeping the hip cocked,you have to have something "positive" to do to continue loading.So you load the back scap as the stride leg goes out,then you externally rotate the back arm down to the slot as the lead leg turns open a little(opening lead foot).All this is still overall associated with the feel of the body stretching as you retain hip cock going into toe touch.
>
> As teacherman points out,the elbow doesn't get "slotted" quite as well as your son.Good "slotting requires" good preparation by 1-getting the back arm internally rotated to begin with at hip cock,and 2- loading the back scap.Good overall body coordination/positioning/loading requires that the upper body and lower body be synchronized.This is felt as simultaneous internal rotation of back arm and lead leg at hip cock,simultaneous back scap loading as lead leg abducts(goes out) and simultaneous external rotation of back arm and lead leg going into toe touch.
>
> If you didn't get the back arm internally rotated at hip cock,then you don't have adequate ability to "slot" the back elbow by external rotation.This means that the back scap prematurely "unloads" as you slot the elbow.This is what degrades "box formation/tht/preparation for good transfer mechanics" as the back elbow then slides forward some toward the belly button preventing the hands from "staying back".
>
> In stead,if you get good back arm internal rotation with hip cock,then get a full back scap load when the stride leg starts out,then you will be in great shape to apply THT by simultaneously externally rotating the lead leg and back arm which will turn the bat back toward the catcher(with a more centered bat) keep the hands back and keep the hip and scap loaded until it's time to unload with heel drop via the "launch sequence".
>
> Better hip cock and better slotting will give better loading and unloading if well coordinated.This gives a full torso turn into contact instead of "getting off the merry go round early" compensating with arm extension and giving the "low finish".
>
> Your son loads and stays connected more,but not as much as the "greats" in the other youthbaseball clips.Look at their overall position(and bat position) in the heel drop frames for comparison.


TOM,

In most all of your posts, you speak of hip cock. I have a hard time picturing what you mean by this. What exactly does it entail? Is it an internal rotation prior to launch (coiling). I'm not seeing it in big league swings (as I understand it). Could you give me a good example of who does it well along with an explanation of what they are doing to create this? What do you perceive it to do for you...is it a connectivity issue?? Just not seeing it. Thanks!

andy