Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com) on Fri Oct 31 23:31:08 2003

>>> For a good explanation on the difference between scapula loading and counter rotation see the following
>
> http://www.setpro.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000046

As seen in this thread I have a slightly different take from Paul Nyman on this overall issue.Unfortunately this gets into the guru wars so be careful (I am by no means a guru,but I aggravate them quite well on occasion.I may be dangerous,but I don't claim to be an expert.Reader beware.Insert your desired disclaimer here).

I believe more than scap loading is necessary to connect well and prevent dragging.I also believe some degree of "counter rotation" of the TORSO is necessary,because without SOME (not a lot) you can not rotate around around a stable axis effectively.I do NOT,however think you define "counter rotation" as turning the SHOULDERS back via twisting the top of the spine significantly back.You do have to turn/coil the lower/mid TORSO some.After an overall SLIGHT inward turn,the torso has to turn/continue back a little as the stride leg goes out and the hips stretch open.This can/should be done with a minimum of displacement,and certainly the head should not have to turn back.It(torso turns back as hips open-"counter-rotation") is observable in my experience of many hitters with high resolution video.It is easy to/should be "felt" as "winding the rubber band"(cue associated with Epstein which irritates some gurus)as the scap loads during the early forward portion of the stride.It is seen well on the guerrero clip.Hank Aaron said "you have to coil,but don't take a backswing"

In addition to loading the back scap and keeping it loaded, as the back elbow drops primarily via external rotation (synchronized with external rotation of the stride leg for good coiling/loading)the back arm also needs to be stable in the shoulder socket.The arm(not scap) should not adduct or flex,or there will be disconnection and bat dragging as the back elbow slides out of the slot forward to the belly button.

The sequence requires the synchronized back arm and lead leg external rotation immediately following scap load/TORSO counterrotation, and then well coordinated elevation of the lead elbow VIA internal rotation to create a stable shoulder/arm/hand ("box") configuration to prevent dragging with launch.This phase between torso counter-rotation/scap load on the one hand and "drop and tilt" on the other creates the first part of "prelaunch" tht which keeps the hands back,keeps the body loading,but without any further/excessive counter-rotation/backswing.

This is the same sequence for the most part up to this point as in the overhand throw.Some scap load/counter-rotation is followed by "stepover" and uncocking of the hip/arching of the back before the torso turns or the head comes forward as it does in throwing(head forward is an additional phase in throwing,head stays back in hitting). <<<

Hi Tom

When I developed terms to describe mechanical principles of the swing, I was working with a physics lab. Therefore, those mechanical terms (THT, CHP, BTH) from my study were derived from the forces acting on the bat that caused the bat-head to accelerate. Although some coaches find it better to describe mechanical principles by the body and muscle groups that supply those forces, I must admit that I have little to no expertise in that field.

From my perspective, the “loading” of a muscle group was to prepare the muscles to do work – as when a basketball player squats to load the muscles in preparation to jump. Along this same line, it seems that “scap loading” would PREPARE the body and limb muscles to whip the elbow (and arm) forward to throw a ball. But as I interpret references to scap loading in the baseball swing, the actual loading of the scab is used to do work, such as accelerating the bat-head back into the plane of the swing. It seems to me that the scap would not be loading to whip the elbow (and arm) forward as in the throwing action. In the baseball swing, once the elbow lowers to the batter’s side it remains there through contact.

Therefore, the pinching back of the scap would appear to me as more of a “contraction” of the muscles to accelerate the bat-head, rather than “loading” in preparation to do work. --- The same would seem to hold true in the case of an archer pulling back on a bowstring. The muscles (scap) are contacting to do work, rather than loading in preparation to do work, as in throwing a ball.

Group, your help in bringing me up to speed on this subject would be appreciated because I certainly do not claim to be a guru either in biomechanics and kinesiology. Mainly, it would be really helpful if someone could explain the difference between “top-hand-torque” (pulling back the top hand toward the catcher in order to create early bat speed) and, the subsequently termed, “scap loading.” Most importantly, does “scap loading” apply different forces to the bat than THT? Or does it merely describe THT with different terminology?

Since it is the end of the month and this could lead to an informative discussion for all, I am starting the new month with this thread.

Jack Mankin