Posted by: Jeff McDowell (mcdowell@txcyber.com) on Tue Oct 28 14:01:07 2003

I will have to concur with Jack's analysis that for pure power, rolling of the wrists at contact will reduce the power or transfer of energy at contact. Try it yourself. If you consiously attempt to roll your wrists at contact by top hand over, you have effectively slowed the bat speed down.

One discussion I never see is that there are pure power hitters and onbase guys.

It appears the pure power hitter effectively moves runners, when and only when contact is made. But that type of hitter will, more often than not, strike out. Frank Thomas comes to mind. This type of hitter typically is the muscle bound player that couldn't make it to base in 4.5 seconds.

Then there is the classic lead off type of hitter that will live in the 1,2 7 and 9 hole who pokes a ball over the infield, out of reach of the outfield and advances runners one base, while getting on himself. This type of batter hasn't seen this website and undoubtedly frustrated many, many coaches through the years with his mechanics. However, this type of batter makes things happen and our time might be warranted in identifying that type of hitter and exploring how to make them more effective as well.

There is a place for both and the necessity to make all hitters like Sosa and Thomas is not practical, nor warranted.

>>> I ran across this site, even has picture. Rotation theory is spreading. What do you think? Site: http://sportstechnique.com/baseball.html <<<
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> Hi Rob
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> I would caution readers of this site (http://sportstechnique.com/baseball.html) that the premature rolling of the wrist is a serious mechanical flaw. Below is some information from Batspeed.com regarding the “Wrist Role.”
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> Truism or Fallacy
> Rethinking Old Baseball Hitting Theories
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> "Roll Your Wrist at Contact"
> Rolling the wrists before or near contact is a serious mechanical flaw that results in loss of power and consistency. During my research, which related to how energy is transferred in the swing, I concluded that premature rolling of the wrists is a killer flaw. In the study, I identified 26 major league baseball players players whose wrists consistently started to roll prior to contact. The batting average for this group was .224 and their average homerun production was 2.1 per year. Three year later, only 4 of those players were still in the major leagues.
> The early rolling of the wrist causes the lead elbow to start breaking down-and-in too soon. This alters the natural trajectory or plane of the swing. Most players who finish their swing low will also have a problem with the wrist roll. Limited shoulder rotation and having the body too vertical or tilted toward the pitcher at contact are also characteristics of the wrist roll.
> The rolling over of the wrist is a natural part of the baseball swing when it occurs at the proper time. It will naturally take place when both arms come almost to full extension and they form the "V" position.
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> Good hitters will have rotated their hips and shoulders about 90 degrees at contact, and now the "V" position and the rolling of the wrist occurs when the bat is close to pointing at the pitcher. Even on outside pitches where rotation is much less, the bat should have rotated 15 or 20 degrees past the contact point before the back arm nears full extension and the arms and the wrist start to roll. --- Hitters who have little shoulder rotation and mainly use the arms to accelerate the bat can reach full extensions while the bat head is farther back in the swing. This allows the wrists to roll at or before contact.
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> >>> Interesting conversation. Wrist snap, do you teach it? If I heard it once -----, A swing without wrist snap will be slow, with weak contact.
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> There's another way to visualize wrist snap and the hand path. That being, 'the legs crank the hand path', or the legs power the swing.
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> Adair's research is mainly in the scientific arena. He does talk about torque via the legs and hips. I cannot tell you the specifics on the swing, although it's basis involves a linear movement and the swing being a series of un-cocking actions. I like Adair's research on timing more than his mechanics (physics work).
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> It's to easy to jump to conclusions, we can start with a linear hand path and end with rotation. Weight shift without torso action, is futile IMNSHO, or without getting your butt into the swing.
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> Does Adair believe the swing is taken around the torso? Regardless of what I find rechecking Adair's physics project, when this 'cranking' (torque) takes place is important (or 'if') to the over-all swing. Shawn <<<
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> Hi Shawn
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> You have raised some interesting questions. I will give you my opinion on "wrist snap" in this thread. But I would like to combine your statement: " There's another way to visualize wrist snap and the hand path. That being, 'the legs crank the hand path', or the legs power the swing" with the subject of "separation" in a new thread.
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> In order to understand the role of the wrist in the swing, I think it is necessary to clarify what is powering the "wrist snap." Is the flexing and un-flexing action being powered by the muscle groups in the forearm or is the flexing and un-flexing caused more by the inertia and trajectories of the bat and the wrists serve mainly as hinges?
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> The muscle groups that control wrist action are a comparatively small group. Considering the bats' mass, it could only add a small percentage of the energy required to generate good bat speed. Also the baseball grip is constrictive to the range of wrist movement. Therefore, the value of what we commonly think of as “wrist snap” in the baseball/softball swing is way overblown. Although I’m sure the following statement will raise hackles on the necks of many of you, but.....before dashing off to the keyboard it may be wise to closely examine some video in frame-by-frame sequence. --- “During the swing, the more the wrists flex and un-flex - the weaker the swing.”
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> It probably would have been more accurate if I had stated - 'forced' to flex and un-flex. The wrist is forced to flex whenever the hands are extended forward without a corresponding angular displacement of the bat-head. This occurs when a batter extends the bat knob-first while allowing the bat-head to trail behind. -- Here is where the "linear kinetic energy transfer theory" misleads the batter. Thinking that once he has transferred his weight to a firm front leg and extended his hands, energy will be released that will un-cock the wrist and the bat will come flying through. ---(As I demonstrated in the instructional video), it doesn't happen. Only rotational energy transferred by a circular hand-path and torque applied to the bat can generate angular displacement of the bat. -- With a straighter hand-path the batter will need to rely more heavily on torque to bring the bat-head through.
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> With a more circular hand-path and applying torque earlier in the swing, a great hitter will keep his hands back longer and allow the arcing bat-head to keep better pace with the advancement of the hands. Much of the bat's early angular displacement takes place while the back-forearm is still in a more vertical position where the wrist can rotate instead of being forced to flex. So the wrist of a rotational hitter can stay much straighter during the swing.
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> With either the linear or rotational swing, what we perceive as “wrist snap” is actually the push-pull action of the arms applying torque to the bat as it approaches contact. --Example: Lead arm reaches full extension and acts as a pivot point for the back arm to push the bat around (torque). Note that during this action the wrist remained fairly straight. Basically the same is true when applying bottom-hand-torque but reversing the role of the hands and arms. In either case it is the push-pull action of the arm that generated angular displacement - not wrist snap.
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> Jack Mankin
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