Posted by: Coach C () on Fri Oct 17 11:00:24 2003

>>> Jack the front shoulder is driven by the hands, whether they go linear or rotational. It's when the front shoulder leads that creates the problems. <<<
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> > > > > > > Hi Coach C
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> > > > > > > How far would you say the hands move before they start driving the shoulder?
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> > > > > > > Jack Mankin
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> > > > > > Zero, this is the case for both linear hitting and rotational hitting. But telling one to keep the hands back doesn't always cure the hitter. Some hitters need to be quicker with the hands (smoother with their body)..depends on the student and their swing.
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> > > > > > Coach C
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> > > > > Is it just me? Because those words mean nothing that I can figure out. They are strung together in sentences, but I can't at all figure out what they mean. If you put a gun to my head and said stand up and demonstrate what C is talking about, I would just have to say shoot me, I don't even know where to start guessing. And I consider myself well read. I can compare and contrast the views of Jack, Paul, Mike etc. But this is gibberish to me. I suppose if C were standing here with a bat demonstrating, I could perhaps discern his meaning. But not from these words.
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> > > > > No more buzzwords. Define exactly what you mean in words everyone can understand and back it up with MLB clips. Especially the latter. Otherwise, start reading Jack, Paul and Mike and asking questions.
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> > > > Mark H.
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> > > > I am not questioning what your clips indicate. Leading with the front shoulder pulling back to the catcher, means trying to draw power from that source , which leads to front side dominance in the swing, which is definetly not the case in a big league swing. If you are considering a gun to your head, I would say there is too much tension in your swing and you are not fully realizing your power potential. Tension free in hitting and in posts.
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> > > > coach C
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> > > What clips? Leading with the front shoulder pulling back to the catcher? Front side dominance? My swing? What? I haven't shown a swing. Once again, I'm just not following the meaning in any of this. Can you be more specific?
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> > Think of it this way.......baseball is pepper without top hand dominance and the flippling of the barrel. This keeps the hands in there proper position (near the back shoulder)and has not just the front shoulder working, but the back shoulder too. The torso is one unit, not one turning the other around. Balance feet, balanced legs, balanced shoulders, balanced head. For young kids...I believe it is wrong to teach emphasis on the front shoulder, because most kids will equate this to pulling, causing the hands and arms to lag. In addition to that, emphasizing the front side turn normally creates a quick hip. I know that I turn, but I feel my hands set the pace for that turn. If I swing at 50% with my hands, my shoulders turn at 50% speed. I always want my hands to feel close to me, even though my effort level will cast them out. Lastly, hitting is mainly about having the ability to feel like the ball is coming to us, not about going to get the ball. The art of hitting is the art of waiting for the ball to come to us.
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> > Are you still confused?
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> > Remember Tension Free!!!!
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> YES I'm still confused. You sound like you are discussing eastern mysticism. If you are trying to say rotation is around the spine and one shoulder replaces the other then I agree. If you are saying the hands stay back near the back shoulder through the ealy part of rotation then yes. And yes the hands stay in close (hit with short stubby arms). You may actually know what you are doing but why do I picture Chevy Chase saying "be the ball" whenever I'm listening to your zen like explanations? Speak plainly. And use clips.


I'm sorry I confuse you. I feel the same way about a lot of the anaylysis I've heard on this site, but it's O.K. Clearly my words do not convey the feelings I have for the swing, nor would my opinions of a baseball clip. Answer this question.....Is there such a thing as a high ball hitter and a low ball hitter? If the answer is yes, then answer Why? Is there such a thing as an inside ball hitter (Bonds, say) or an outside ball hitter (Gwynn and Boggs, say)? If the answer is yes, then answer why? Lastly address the issue of extension in the swing.....why do McGwire/A-Rod preach extension in the swing with top hand release, where by Bonds/Berkman try to hit balls off the back shoulder with short stubby arms? All great hitters, but different mental images of what is going on at contact. Explain these issue to me and then I'll give you my answers. You will be graded on your answers. You tell me you know so much, but have offered no advice, other than to read from the works of others. Let's see what you know. Fair question!!!!

Coach C

p.s. It's open book, so feel free to read from anything you want or watch any clip you want.