Posted by: daw (daw@bellevue-law.com) on Sat Feb 23 07:55:44 2008

> > > > And I do value the role of rotation in the swing. I just wouldn't say that the rotating shoulders is the only source of power in the swing. <b>I would also state that the two shoulders are independent in their active role in the swing.
> > >
> > > So the term shoulder rotation leads many to believe the shoulders are one unit when rotating. False. </b>
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your response.
> > > >
> > > > Jimmy
> > >
> > >
> > > Jimmy:
> > >
> > > Is that your big point about shoulder rotation? Certainly you have something stronger to offer ... don't you??
> > >
> > > Of course, the lead shoulder has more of an inward turn (shrug) than the back shoulder prior to initiation. That is a point Jack teaches. But otherwise, it is silly to suggest that we should TEACH players to operate their shoulders independently DURING the swing. In fact, I encourage you to post a video demonstrating how to teach a player that "the two shoulders are independent in their active role in the swing."
> > >
> > > And what is YOUR CUE for this so-called independent two shoulder technique?
> > >
> > > Although you never back up anything you write, for once try spending a little time with video analysis and create something to back up your opinions. I realize that you refused to post a video earlier this month supporting your claim that Jack is not accurately describing Bonds' swing. So I have no expectation that you will have anything substantive to offer here.
> > >
> > > Brian
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> > You seem disappointed that I didn't reveal more cues that are misleading.
> >
> > And as far as posting a video for you, it would be pointless and a waste of time. You see what what happens in the swing, but you are too closed minded to listen to why it actually happens.
> >
> > Anyone can look at video and describe what they see. I'm sure you do it all the time. The coaches that can actually help mold a hitter into a player that does what you are trying to figure out are not teaching what you think are good rotational mechanics.
> >
> > And these are not my "opinions" these are facts.
> >
> > You want a cue for my "so-called" independent two shoulder technique...the thing is that you don't get the fact that cues are only effective if the hitter completely understands it and knows exactly how to apply it.
> >
> > One cue should have many layers to it, so there is no one "cue" that would make you get it.
> >
> > That was the point of my first post. Cues, when not understood completely, can be misused and will ruin good hitters.
> >
> > Sorry for the disappointment Brian.
> >
> > Jimmy
>
> Jimmy:
>
> You don't disappoint me ... you validate my comments with more rhetoric and no substance. In essence, the coach that knows everything and backs it up with nothing. Just like the political candidate who has a "plan" for everything, and no ability to explain the meaning or content of the plan.
>
> As a perfect example, you suggest that we should teach that the shoulders rotate independently, but you fail to show that it even exists or state how to teach it. You claim that Bonds does not swing as Jack describes, but you provide no basis to support your comments.
>
> We are not living in the 1970s anymore when you can get away with saying anything and teaching things that don't occur. With the tools available to coaches today, I believe it is essential to demonstrate what you are saying. Whether you agree or disagree or Jack, that is what he is doing to advance the understanding and teaching of the baseball swing. So if you are going to keep laying out these charges, get with the game and support the things you say.
>
> Brian

>>>>>>>>>


For whatever it adds to this discussion, we have had good results on my fastpitch team over the years, emphasizing front shoulder rotation as the primary "cue" in initiation, the other being "spinning the hands" (a synonym Jack coined for THT). We tell them "put your mind in your [front] shoulder" and initiate by "exploding" the front shoulder around. If they are in the correct trigger position, focusing on initiating by really exploding the front shoulder around seems to us to "unify" the necessary mechanics (except for THT).