Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Posted by: george stanley (saint_george13@yahoo.com) on Mon Feb 18 16:56:36 2008

> Jack, Thanks for your site. My boy 12 yrs is on his way with rotational. He has more power than w/ linear which he was first taught. I would apprieciate ---your---- views on using pitching machines and their proper training use. My boy can catch the 45to55 but any faster he has trouble, His pre launch back movement {seems} to contribute to his being late. It is very hard to time this w iron mike.Please explain fully the best training technique for timing fast pitches.
>
> Hi Coach Dad
>
> I am not in favor of pitching machines set at higher speeds. Good hitters start setting the rhythm of their swing to the rhythm of the pitcher’s windup. Seeing a ball of higher velocity suddenly appear does more to produces tension in the arms and shoulders rather than promoting the loose ever accelerating swing we see in the better MLB hitters.
>
> Coach, sound rotational principles accelerate the bat from launch to contact much quicker than linear principles. This is because rotational mechanics rely on the larger muscles of the legs, torso and shoulders whereas linear mechanics rely to heavily on the smaller muscles of the arms. With rotational mechanics, the batter keeps his hands back and allows the rotation of his shoulders to accelerate the hand into a CHP and apply the torque (BHT) that accelerates the bat to contact.
>
> Below are a couple video clips that illustrates practicing rotational drills and the resulting swings.
>
> <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/One_two_hand_drills.wmv"> Aaron/Julie from Final Arc</a --
>
>
> <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/WCWS_hitters.wmv">Balko and Mesa CHP – not driving hands</a –
>
>
> Jack Mankin

hello coach dad!!

the "pre-launch back movement" is the fatal error which haunts far too many MLB hitters throughout the league...i call it the "beerbelly ball swing", where like 16" softball hitters, post-pitch release backward motion precludes your getting to certain pitches in certain spots on time.. i have been chastised by mr. mankin for my repetitive preaching about this flaw... nevertheless, it still exists, & it ain't going away.. it's like the 800 pound gorilla in the room..i notice mr. mankin makes no mention of what to do about you attributing your boy's being late to pre-launch back movement..that's because he refuses to acknowledge this part of the swing causes problems & makes hitters late.. but it does in fact have an deleterious effect on timing. instead, he sez practice with slower pitches that don't make your hitter late... HUH?!?!? oh well... it's his site! i'm just another bozo out there with some weird ideas..
taking an overview, this buggywhipping action might work at lower pitch speeds.. but then one day you run into a pitcher who gets the ball up there quicker than the hitter has ever experienced.. & all of a sudden he's consistently late & looks overmatched..
this is brought on by bad habits which need to be eliminated or adjusted..
watch jermaine dye, derek jeter, magglio ordonez, jorge posada, matt holliday... all of these guys are without a backward windup swing after the pitch is released & underway..all have their hands up high & back.. once the pitch is released, any motion is FORWARD. no dropping the hands, no circle hitch with the hands, no drawing the hands & arms backward before starting forward... just right at it..
12 year olds in my humble opinion are several metamorphoses away from
hitting a baseball in MLB...proof is in the fact no 12 year olds are yet in MLB. think of your boy as a worm who eventually turns into a butterfly... show me his birth certificate, & that will tell me where he stands in the development cycle.. i believe after a boy turns 18 & ventures out into the real world away from the cocoon of his lifelong home, he faces another learning cycle where he learns to interact with adults, & begins to act like an adult responsible for his own actions without much input from his parents.. every day is a learning experience.. at that point in his life, he will begin to understand what is expected of him in the batter's box moreso than at any previous time, as he is now in a new baseball environment, with new coaches & new teammates... some kids thrive, others become lost..it is at this age that your son will come face to face with the defining moments in his quest to end up in MLB...
many kids who were standouts in hs will falter; many others who were not remarkable will improve dramatically.. your boy is a long way away from that moment; whatever he does today will be long forgotten by then. don't let him get too up or down at this time in his development... he has a very long ways to go.. let hime live for the moment and enjoy the ride!

....and i quote bill james

"MY VIEW OF THE WORLD, WHETHER BB OR PHYSICS (hmmm, mentioning physics... imagine that!) THERE ARE OCEANS OF IGNORANCE AND SMALL PONDS OF KNOWLEDGE" ... when asked if there was room for another stat freak in the bb ocean:

"ABSOLUTELY....WE DON'T KNOW NOTHIN !!!!" when asked for prerequesites:

"SKEPTICISM ABOUT THE STATUS QUO "

##
HELLO JACK!

I WATCHED THE 2 KIDS HITTING HR'S IN THE WORLD SERIES. BOTH ARE UPPER BODY ONLY SWINGERS.. YES, BUGGYWHIPPERS. IF YOU SAY THEY BOTH HIT HR'S ON THOSE PITCHES, I SAY THERE IS A LOT TO BE SAID FOR ALUMINUM BATS..
BOTH HITTERS HAVE A WAY TOO LONG STRIDE.. NEITHER ONE IS GENERATING ANY LOWER BODY TORQUE.. THEIR STRIDE PRECLUDES THAT FROM HAPPENING..
THE CLIP OF BALKO DOES NOT SHOW SHERE HE IS IN RELATION TO THE PLATE.. MESA'S FRONT FOOT IS EVEN WITH THE PLATE AT THE END OF HIS STRIDE..STANDING TOO FAR BACK IN THE BOX. ON BOTH HITTERS, THE BALL APPEARS TO HAVE GOTTEN IN ON THE HITTER TOO FAR.. THAT IS, NEITHER ONE HITS THE BALL OUT IN FRONT OF THE PLATE.. RATHER, JUST BARELY IN FRONT OF THE PLATE IN ADDITION, BOTH BALLS START UP RATHER THAN OUT... INDICATING THEY WERE BOTH LATE.. IF THEY BOTH CAN BE AS LATE AS THEY APPEAR TO BE (JUST PRIOR TO CONTACT, BOTH HITTERS ARE STILL PULLING THEIR LEAD HAND INWARD, AS THEY ARE GETTING JAMMED)& HIT THE BALL JUST BARELY OUT IN FRONT OF THE PLATE, THEN THE REASON IS THE METAL BAT MUST BE PROVIDING ALL THE POWER. IF EITHER ONE HIT THE BALL WITH A WOOD BAT IN THE SAME MANNER, THEY WOULD BOTH BE HARMLESS FLYOUTS.
BALKO HAS A CLASSIC MLB STANCE, THAT IS WAY TOO WIDE TO START WITH.. WITH THE BAT COCKED PAST THE PERPENDICULAR ABOUT 35-40 DEGREES.. WHICH MEANS ABOUT 12-18" OF BACKWARD TRAVEL BEFORE THE BAT STARTS FORWARD.. WAY TOO TIME CONSUMING!! IF HE CONTINUES WIH THIS STANCE, HE HAS A BRIGHT FUTURE AS A FAIR HR HITTER WITH A BELOW AVERAGE BA..
SO TYPICAL OF THE HITTERS BEING CHURNED OUT BY THE PRESENT BATTING THEORY COACHES. LOTSA COLLEGE HITTERS ARE LEFT IN THE DUST WHEN THEY HAVE TO SWITCH OVER TO WOOD BATS, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY AND THEIR COACHES DO NOT REALIZE HOW MUCH POWER IS PROVIDED BY A METAL BAT.
BOTH OF THOSE GUYS CAN HIT A BALL A LOT FARTHER THAN THEY DID ON THOSE SPECIFIC PITCHES.. THE ANGLE OF FLIGHT OF THE BALL OFF THE BAT TELLS ME SO!!

Followups:

Re: Re: Re: pitching machines Jack Mankin [ Mon Feb 18 18:58:41 2008 ]

Post a followup:

Name:

E-mail:

Subject:

Text:

> > Jack, Thanks for your site. My boy 12 yrs is on his way with rotational. He has more power than w/ linear which he was first taught. I would apprieciate ---your---- views on using pitching machines and their proper training use. My boy can catch the 45to55 but any faster he has trouble, His pre launch back movement {seems} to contribute to his being late. It is very hard to time this w iron mike.Please explain fully the best training technique for timing fast pitches.
> > 
> > Hi Coach Dad
> > 
> > I am not in favor of pitching machines set at higher speeds. Good hitters start setting the rhythm of their swing to the rhythm of the pitcher’s windup. Seeing a ball of higher velocity suddenly appear does more to produces tension in the arms and shoulders rather than promoting the loose ever accelerating swing we see in the better MLB hitters. 
> > 
> > Coach, sound rotational principles accelerate the bat from launch to contact much quicker than linear principles. This is because rotational mechanics rely on the larger muscles of the legs, torso and shoulders whereas linear mechanics rely to heavily on the smaller muscles of the arms. With rotational mechanics, the batter keeps his hands back and allows the rotation of his shoulders to accelerate the hand into a CHP and apply the torque (BHT) that accelerates the bat to contact. 
> > 
> > Below are a couple video clips that illustrates practicing rotational drills and the resulting swings.  
> > 
> > <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/One_two_hand_drills.wmv"> Aaron/Julie from Final Arc</a --
> > 
> > 
> > <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/WCWS_hitters.wmv">Balko and Mesa CHP – not driving hands</a –
> > 
> > 
> > Jack Mankin
> 
> hello coach dad!!
> 
> the "pre-launch back movement" is the fatal error which haunts far too many MLB hitters throughout the league...i call it the "beerbelly ball swing", where like 16" softball hitters, post-pitch release backward motion precludes your getting to certain pitches in certain spots on time.. i have been chastised by mr. mankin for my repetitive preaching about this flaw... nevertheless, it still exists, & it ain't going away.. it's like the 800 pound gorilla in the room..i notice mr. mankin makes no mention of what to do about you attributing your boy's being late to pre-launch back movement..that's because he refuses to acknowledge this part of the swing causes problems & makes hitters late.. but it does in fact have an deleterious effect on timing. instead, he sez practice with slower pitches that don't make your hitter late... HUH?!?!? oh well... it's his site! i'm just another bozo out there with some weird ideas..
> taking an overview, this buggywhipping action might work at lower pitch speeds.. but then one day you run into a pitcher who gets the ball up there quicker than the hitter has ever experienced.. & all of a sudden he's consistently late & looks overmatched.. 
> this is brought on by bad habits which need to be eliminated or adjusted..
> watch jermaine dye, derek jeter, magglio ordonez, jorge posada, matt holliday... all of these guys are without a backward windup swing after the pitch is released & underway..all have their hands up high & back.. once the pitch is released, any motion is FORWARD. no dropping the hands, no circle hitch with the hands, no drawing the hands & arms backward before starting forward... just right at it..
> 12 year olds in my humble opinion are several metamorphoses away from 
> hitting a baseball in MLB...proof is in the fact no 12 year olds are yet in MLB. think of your boy as a worm who eventually turns into a butterfly... show me his birth certificate, & that will tell me where he stands in the development cycle.. i believe after a boy turns 18 & ventures out into the real world away from the cocoon of his lifelong home, he faces another learning cycle where he learns to interact with adults, & begins to act like an adult responsible for his own actions without much input from his parents.. every day is a learning experience.. at that point in his life, he will begin to understand what is expected of him in the batter's box moreso than at any previous time, as he is now in a new baseball environment, with new coaches & new teammates... some kids thrive, others become lost..it is at this age that your son will come face to face with the defining moments in his quest to end up in MLB...
> many kids who were standouts in hs will falter; many others who were not remarkable will improve dramatically.. your boy is a long way away from that moment; whatever he does today will be long forgotten by then. don't let him get too up or down at this time in his development... he has a very long ways to go.. let hime live for the moment and enjoy the ride!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....and i quote bill james
> 
> "MY VIEW OF THE WORLD, WHETHER BB OR PHYSICS (hmmm, mentioning physics... imagine that!) THERE ARE OCEANS OF IGNORANCE AND SMALL PONDS OF KNOWLEDGE" ... when asked if there was room for another stat freak in the bb ocean:
> 
> "ABSOLUTELY....WE DON'T KNOW NOTHIN !!!!" when asked for prerequesites:
> 
> "SKEPTICISM ABOUT THE STATUS QUO "
> 
> 
> ##
> HELLO JACK!
> 
> I WATCHED THE 2 KIDS HITTING HR'S IN THE WORLD SERIES. BOTH ARE UPPER BODY ONLY SWINGERS.. YES, BUGGYWHIPPERS. IF YOU SAY THEY BOTH HIT HR'S ON THOSE PITCHES, I SAY THERE IS A LOT TO BE SAID FOR ALUMINUM BATS..
> BOTH HITTERS HAVE A WAY TOO LONG STRIDE.. NEITHER ONE IS GENERATING ANY LOWER BODY TORQUE.. THEIR STRIDE PRECLUDES THAT FROM HAPPENING..
> THE CLIP OF BALKO DOES NOT SHOW SHERE HE IS IN RELATION TO THE PLATE.. MESA'S FRONT FOOT IS EVEN WITH THE PLATE AT THE END OF HIS STRIDE..STANDING TOO FAR BACK IN THE BOX. ON BOTH HITTERS, THE BALL APPEARS TO HAVE GOTTEN IN ON THE HITTER TOO FAR.. THAT IS,  NEITHER ONE HITS THE BALL OUT IN FRONT OF THE PLATE.. RATHER, JUST BARELY IN FRONT OF THE PLATE IN ADDITION, BOTH BALLS START UP RATHER THAN OUT... INDICATING THEY WERE BOTH LATE..  IF THEY BOTH CAN BE AS LATE AS THEY APPEAR TO BE (JUST PRIOR TO CONTACT, BOTH HITTERS ARE STILL PULLING THEIR LEAD HAND INWARD, AS THEY ARE GETTING JAMMED)& HIT THE BALL JUST BARELY OUT IN FRONT OF THE PLATE, THEN THE REASON IS THE METAL BAT MUST BE PROVIDING  ALL THE POWER.  IF EITHER ONE HIT THE BALL WITH A WOOD BAT IN THE SAME MANNER, THEY WOULD BOTH BE HARMLESS FLYOUTS.
> BALKO HAS A CLASSIC MLB STANCE, THAT IS WAY TOO WIDE TO START WITH..  WITH THE BAT COCKED PAST THE PERPENDICULAR ABOUT  35-40 DEGREES.. WHICH MEANS ABOUT 12-18" OF BACKWARD TRAVEL BEFORE THE BAT STARTS FORWARD.. WAY TOO TIME CONSUMING!! IF HE CONTINUES WIH THIS STANCE, HE HAS A BRIGHT FUTURE AS A FAIR HR HITTER WITH A BELOW AVERAGE BA.. 
> SO TYPICAL OF THE HITTERS BEING CHURNED OUT BY THE PRESENT BATTING THEORY COACHES.  LOTSA COLLEGE HITTERS ARE LEFT IN THE DUST WHEN THEY HAVE TO SWITCH OVER TO WOOD BATS, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY AND THEIR COACHES DO NOT REALIZE HOW MUCH POWER IS PROVIDED BY A METAL BAT.
> BOTH OF THOSE GUYS CAN HIT A BALL A LOT FARTHER THAN THEY DID ON THOSE SPECIFIC PITCHES.. THE ANGLE OF FLIGHT OF THE BALL OFF THE BAT TELLS ME SO!!

Anti-Spambot Question:

This is known as hitting for the cycle in a game?
   Single, double, triple, homerun
   Four singles
   Three homeruns
   Three stikeouts