Posted by: RQL () on Thu Sep 11 08:21:47 2003

>.Jack ,I am not seeing the tht the same as you describe. Your quote"The bat head is being accelerated into the normal launch position by the top hand being pulled back at a faster rate than the bottom hand. therefore the hands as a unit are being pulled to the bach shoulder as a unit but the top hand is moving faster, or arcing around the bottomhand .During thr pre-launch phase, one can clearly see the top hand being pulled up and back [or toward the catcher]." I see the 2 hands being pulled back together as the scap load and during this time, barrel is being bent back toward pitcher and knob at catcher.Barrel is never accelerated back as hands are going back.Now I see that there are four things going on in the same frame of video,1 lead heel comes down,2 rear knee drives forward,3 rear elbow comes down and 4 lead shoulder begins to pull forward as elbow works up.These are merely initiated in this frame but what is pertinent as I see it is that the rear elbow coming down is what forces the top hand back and it is the lead shoulder beginning to turn that is tightening up any slack in lead arm as it begins to pull knob forward.Torque at its beginning is created by the top hand coming back as bottom hand pulls forward[pressure being applied in opposite direction]and rotation has started.I cannot see any video that shows the barrel going back toward the catcher as both hands going back together nor do I see one going back faster than the other.Again the knob is pointed at the catcher as both hands go back and there is no torque or barrel acceleration only as top hand is driven by rear elbow and lead shoulder rotation drives knob forward do I see torque and the beginning of chp.I just can't find torque being in 2 phases ,not in Sosa or Bonds or anyone else. I also think that the hands stay back for a moment because of torque from rotation which is beginning in hips and shoulders but having barrel and knob work around the hands before they take off.
>
> Hi rql
>
> In your disagreement you state, “I see the 2 hands being pulled back together as the scap load and during this time, barrel is being bent back toward pitcher and knob at catcher.Barrel is never accelerated back as hands are going back.” -- So, you are saying that as the hands are being pulled back, the barrel is being bent toward the pitcher. Whereas I maintain the barrel is also heading back toward the launch position.
>
> Guerrero uses “pre launch torque” in his swing. Nick’s clip of him can be shown frame-by-frame. Go to - http://webpages.charter.net/nickkio/Guerrero01.mpg
>
> Question #1 -- Is the bat going toward the pitcher or the catcher as the hands are pulled toward the launch position?
>
> Question #2 – As he prepares his launch position, does his lead-shoulder stay straight as Paul Nyman advocates and illustrates in animated drawings of his “scapula loading technique”-- http://www.setpro.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000025;p=1#000009 – or – does Guerrero turn his shoulder inward, as in the “inward-turn?”
>
> Rql, once we have discussed these points, we can move to your other disagreements.
>
> Jack Mankin
> Jack I just looked at the guerero clip and I am not up on Nyman for what he is saying however what I feel is that yes his lead shoulder does inward turn Tom calls this either abduct or adduct while the rear scapula is clearly pinching.Now what I don't see and this is the point of my thread below on inward turn is that Guerero's upper body torso ,mid section appears to me to stay facing the plate while the shoulders almost are working seperate, inward turning alone creating separation but not so much as we have said between upper and lower body but more between lower body and shoulders with mid section and chest connecting the 2.Could it be that it is the shoulders that are inward turning during scapula load and when the lead foot reaches out with stride that the stretching that takes place in the mid section[lines on a jersey going back]is being caused by only the shoulders going back and lower body reaching out.I guess I'm saying that upper body in ward turn is not as correct as shoulder inward turn.Jack usually when I disagree with you I get to learn something new so don't take this conversation the wrong way