Posted by: Jack Mankin (mrbatspeed@aol.com) on Sun Sep 7 22:06:58 2003

>>> Jack-

Thanks for the follow-up question.

My thinking is that how the bat moves through space is very
important,but so is how the muscles are used to do it.I largely
omitted the bat above,so here i will try to reinset it.Ideally,the
mechanics need to minimize timing error.This means a short
swing with as rapid acceleration as possible and with as big a
contact area as possible with the bat angle such that solid
contact produces a fair ball.

The bat must swing out and stay in the power plane of the body
roughly perpendicular to the upper spine.Bend at waist and to
some degree how much the axis leans back or foward are the
main adjusters of the swing plane/disc.I agree that the bat
should be in this plane/disc and swing backward/toward the
catcher so it then makes contact on the upswing and close
in,not way out front.Ideally the bat tip is as far "out'"(toward
opposite batter's box/on axis perpendicular to flight of ball) as it
gets at contact and contact is at center of percussion.

My interpretation of Nyman is that he considers the overall action
of the rotational swing "whipping".I believe Paul dislikes the THT
concept almost as intensely as "counter-rotation" or "circle up to
high cock".In general he sees these as "cues" that are not
adequately reflective of reality.Perhaps he or "O'really" might
weigh in on that.

I am a layperson and not a scientist,but the THT concept works
for me.I think THT is the turning of the bat between the hands as
the bat (cocks and) uncocks(due to arm action driven by big
muscles,not wrist action or forearm action driven by muscles in
arm-none of that supination/pronation/ulnar deviation stuff-those
are just workarounds/compensations).I think the cocking and
uncocking and "centering of the bat" are all desirable features/
cues.

I prefer a somewhat vertical bat (like Bonds).The bat cocks
toward the opposite batters box as he bends at the waist,then
starts around toward the pitcher as he internally rotates the back
arm as the hip cocks,then around more as he scap loads(he
"counter-rotaes" a little as you see big #25 turn back just slightly
at this point from the behind the back view).During scap
loading(pinching.horizontal adduction of scapula toward spine
as with rhomboid type muscles) is where the torso can in
general be seen to "counter rotate a little(too much is a
problem).Then the back arm begins down to the slot lead by
external rotation of the back arm as the lead leg externally
rotates.Upper/lower body synchronization is important
here.Masters of these skills exhibit what Nyman describes as
many degrees of freedom which is a discrete/fine level of
automatic control over the muscles as opposed moving many
muscles locked together rigidly as the beginner must.With lots
of degrees of freedom,for example,the player can externally
rotate the front leg quite open as they "stride to balance at toe
touch" without yet "uncocking the hip".This gives their motion a
smoothness,fliudity and control that enlarges the timing window
for the swing while providing great power and low timing
error.Such a player can load and unload quickly and reliably with
great energy transfer using what Nyman refers to as eccentric to
concentric muscle action-great coiling and uncoiling action.

Soon after the back arm starts down into the slot with external
rotation,the lead arm internally rotates as it prepares for tight
connection and this(energy applied through both arms) action
accelerates turning of the bat by torque before launch,which I
believe is what you refer to as "prelaunch" THT.I suspect another
mechanics/physics/biomechanics/physiology principle of some
kind is at work here which is what you explained in the past(Jack
speed gains thread with Zig from March of this year):

"Efficient transfer mechanics produce the dynamic load
(exponential resistant factor) that causes the “deceleration” of
segments you mentioned. Poor transfer mechanics offers a
much-reduced resistance (load or work done) to segment
rotation and therefore, covert less rotation energy into bat
speed."

I don't believe Nyman thinks of this as torque.It feels like torque
to me because it is arm action turning the bat between the 2
hands,

Next,there is THT at launch which creates acceleration by the
addition of lead arm pull as the front solid connection is made.

Overall,I think it is necessary to teach some bat cock/uncock
(bart's idea?)and how to use the big muscles to create this
motion with good timing.The THT description doesn't work for
me as a teaching verbal"cue" nor do desriptions of finger
pressure/direction of force with hands.Furthermore when I look
at super slowmo of the hands during bat cock/uncock/prelaunch
and launch tht,I see the top hand staying back against the back
shoulder(in behind head as you describe it) as it continues to
load while the bottom hand works the knob around it as the bat
gets into the swing plane.

To a layperson like me,the important principle is that arm action
caused by the big muscles is uncocking the bat,and if it isn;t
done right you lose ability to adjust to offspeed and quickness to
the ball,especially on the outside/long swing radius location.

Now I think that you and Paul are on the same wavelength with
regard to what happens with hooking the handpath,however,this
does not seem like torque to me.Instead it seems like the shape
of the handpath is controlled by the bottom hand/lead arm and
the bat is whipping out in response to this shape/radius change
with the top hand along for the ride at this point,being pulled
around by the accelerating bat,not applying torque force
anymore.So BHT doesn't seem to the layperson like me to be
torque.On the other hand,the "pull back with the bottom hand"
cue seems extremely effective to me.

So i find it possible to break the swing down even more as a
useful way of learning/describing the feel of the swing.It is hard
to describe in words,but easy to feel the body go through this
sequence once you create awareness.

1-internal rotation associates with hip cock at end of stride
lift(internal rotation/hip cock prepare for later external rotation
and uncocking of hip)

2-scap loading is associated with slight counterrotation as
stride goes out(gets torso horizontally stretched/loaded)

3-external rotation happens together with back arm and stride
leg as you stride to balance at toe touch(continues loading as
spine coiling),helps to have vertical bat dropping into swing
plane

4- at launch,hip uncocks(unloading begins/hips rotated to
maximum turning velocity/momentum to start momentum
transfer) with "drop and tilt" and lead elbow internally rotates/
works up a little.Front scap loads/connects.This plus external
rotation of back arm creates accelerating pre-launch tht as
maximum separation is reached (dynamic load/?exponential
resistance thinggy?)

5-then THT at launch as torso turn pulls lead arm/bottom
hand(interrupting top hand/back arm loading).

To me back scap loading is important and before tht.I think to
Nyman,scap loading isn't such a big deal in hitting and THT
does not exist.

My interpretation of Nyman is that he considers the overall action
of the rotational swing "whipping".I believe Paul dislikes the THT
concept <<<

Hi Tom

Thank you for taking the time for your in-depth reply. I have always felt that regardless of the terminology used to describe a mechanic, you and I are in agreement on the importance of generating early acceleration of the bat-head behind the shoulder before rotating. In your opinion, would Paul also agree on its importance? If so, would he consider the mechanic that accelerates the bat-head during pre-launch and initiation as a "whipping" action?

Tom, I realize I am putting you on the spot to answer for another person’s theories. But, when their theories are brought up on this site, it helps to have someone clarify their position.

Jack Mankin