Posted by: rql () on Sun Sep 7 20:54:56 2003

>>> You are doing a great sevice for your kids.I'll bet they are tearing it up !
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> Here is a long post on my view of the key being the similarity to arm action in throwing.Beware.Lots of verbage here.Don't pay any attention if confused(but you asked)
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> As far as I know,the scap load concept was realized and best explained by Nyman at setpro.First in relation to the overhand throw,then hitting.I believe Nyman's theories are the the most comprehensive and accurate.I posted his throwing article link here.I believe much of this throwing info applies to hitting as well,including the primacy of "arm action"(how big torso muscles move upper arms,not small muscles moving forearm/wrist/hand).Nyman disagrees with this degree of concordance between the throwing and hitting arm action-see his thread on this scap load/counterrotation issue:
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> http://www.setpro.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000046
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> I remain a firm believer in the importance of teaching this level of detail(learn feel in anatomic/biomechanic terms) in hitting as mentioned in my post in the setpro thread.The first I heard of the importance of "arm action" was in a tape by Jeff Hodge ("Biomechanic Baseball") who is a medical biomechanics expert who has studied and worked with many pitchers/patients,especially working with Dr. Jobe and the Dodgers.
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> When I first got interested in this area,Jeff and Jack and PaulNyman and Steve T. were posting some very "esoteric/mind stretching"(and largely unwelcome) stuff on Dave Hudgen's board.Those were interesting times.
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> For overhand throw,Jeff pointed out the importance of arm action sequence and synchronization with the lower body,but did not explicitly appreciate the importance of scap loading action.He felt the best and safest mechanics(best/least stressful elastic loading and unloading of the shoulder complex among other things)included:
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> 1- handbreak by symmetric internal rotation and abduction of the arms with some flex in the elbow.He described this as breaking the hands with the palms down and getting the elbows up to shoulder height or higher.When he visually demonstrates,he does a nice scap load,and if you follow this and are lucky,you will start good loading,but without the explicit understanding of scap loading(Nyman-"lift and pinch")) there is big room for error here.
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> 2- the next step is for the back arm to externally rotate as the front thigh begins to turn over/externally rotate(before foot plant).Synchronizing these two external rotation motions together begins the laying back/external rotation of the throwing arm(and loads the spine/body by coiling).It is important to have the scaps loaded before this as part of the sequence.When the front thigh turns over,the throwing arm starts up.It is also impossible to do unless you have first gotten the arms internally rotated after handbreak.While it seems like a big pain to think/use these anatomical terms,I believe they are necessary to close what Nyman calls the perception/reality gap for teaching and for learning awareness of what the body is doing when skills are acquired.
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> So far,you have internally rotated,then scap loaded,then externally rotated the arm and front leg together.
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> Hodge at this point likes to emphasize the feel of the throwing elbow getting to 90 degrees.He recommends that the elbow be flexed at handbreak,and usually it extends quite a bit straighter/more than 90 degrees after handbreak(altough more flex/less extension is recommended the heavier the object-not getting much past 90 degrees for softball).As the throwing arm comes up(externally rotates) as the thigh turns over(externally rotates),then you need to get the elbow back to 90 degrees which you can usually feel fairly easily(devices like "throwmax" work on this principle of keeping the elbow at 90 degrees to encourage internal rotation rather than extension as the primary motion of rapid arm acceleration).
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> Next,the torso begins to turn(hips lead torso/usual kinetic chain action/energy transfers as torso turns) which lays back/externally rotates the arm further.The 90 degree angle is important for leverage when the arm later accelerates primarily by internal rotation(a point explained by Nyman).Then you land on a firm flexed front knee which promotes a longer arc of deceleration.For overall timing/sequencing,Hodge stresses that the torso turn should start before the head/weight/torso come forward.
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> The arm sequence of getting internally rotated(and scap loaded),then externally rotating in synch with lower body,then laying back with torso turn minimizes stress to the anterior shoulder(sequence and timing need to be right).A firmly loaded scap is essential to this and is a missing piece as found by Nyman.The long deceleration protects the posterior shopulder.Arm acceleration primarily by internal rotation(not by extension and not with any flexing of the elbow tighter than 90 degrees) and a pronating rather than supinating finish(promoted by devices like the "spinner") will protect the elbow as much as possible.
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> This is great information that you can use(still lots of things can go wrong in the middle of this action which Nyman addresses via "backward chaining")but the important factor is that a lot carries over to hitting.Hitting is a two handed activity with more of an out of phase arm action rather than arm action symmetry,and you don't bring the weight forward as in the phases of the throw after the torso turn,but the loading sequence lead by the top hand/back arm action is the same as well as the necessity of synching it with the lower body.
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> I would continue to emphasize the importance of scap loading.Become aware of the feel of back scap loading after the back arm is internally rotated.Then the back scap needs to stay loaded until the "L" comes out of the back elbow(which can be before or after contact for long or short swing radius/out vs in location).The tight connection of the front side comes from the internal rotation of the lead arm(lead elbow elevates and stays in swing plane) meeting up with the loading of the front scap.The longer vs shorter swing radius comes from how long you wait before this front arm/scap/bottom hand connection/launch takes before it "interrupts"(front heel drop) the ongoing loading which is lead by the back arm sequence.In summary-
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> top hand/back arm action leads loading as seen in bat cocking:
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> 1 internal rotation of back arm as hip gets cocked
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> 2 scap loading of back scap as stride leg goes out(can start with scap quite loaded/"preloaded" with accompanying wide/already spread out stance
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> 3 back arm externally rotates toward slot(some dropping of elbow via ADduction,but no "flexing" action as would end up taking elbow past slot toward belly button).This is synchronized with front leg externally rotating so body is rotating/coiling before/into toe touch
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> As launch is approached,the lead arm internally rotates the front elbow up.It is this action combined with the ongoing loading of back arm external rotation which produces what Jack calls THT.Then the front scap loads/firms up in the appropriate position depending on swing radius.Front scap horizontally aBducted laying across chest/bicep pinched vs torso/fairly straight lead arm for outside/high load/long swing radius.Front scap horizontally aDducted/in more pinched or neutral position with more flex in lead elbow/lead arm more off chest.Lead elbow stays firmly internally rotated(elbow up in swing plane) through contact.Handpath can hook by further pinching of front scap or by additional flexing/bend in front elbow(while front arm remains internally rotated).
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> If you learn to go through this choreography,you can get a quick swing without excessive backswing/counterrotation.It feels easiers than the words make it sound.
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> In the setpro thread,My point about separation was poorly stated as pointed out by Nyman.Too much separation can mean dragging and disconnection.The aim of this out of phase universal arm sequence synchronizeed with the lower body is to get used to the RIGHT timing/degree of loading/unloading/separation.When done poorly/too much backswing or too much counterrotation will rigidl("one-piece") overseparate things early,then under separate things later.You have to learn the arm action sequence and synchronize it to get both more power and less arm drag.
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> Once you have taught the basices of feel,as when your daughter keeps the bat on the bicep,for example,this arm action information can guide good "uppr body loading" in the hands free(bat off shoulder) mode.
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> Also search the public setpro forums for "two-piece load" for another description of the desired scap associated load as opposed to the suboptimal one-piece backswing type counter rotation. <<<
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> Hi Tom
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> Would you not agree that the ultimate objective of good swing mechanics is to accelerate the bat-head into a predictable plane at maximum velocity? Whether a mechanic is referred to as Top-Hand-Torque or Scap Loading, I believe describing the impact the mechanic has on the plane of the swing and bat-head acceleration, to be of utmost importance. Yet, I can find little reference to either in Paul Nyman’s or your discussions on Scap Loading. In fact, I find the bat itself seldom mentioned in the past few discussions.
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> Since I do not have access to Paul’s Private Discussion Board, it would be most helpful if you clarify a point for me. – Does the mechanic Paul refers to as “Scap Loading” produce a different swing plane and bat-head acceleration than the mechanic I termed in 1991 as “Top-Hand-Torque?”
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> Jack Mankin
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>>Jack I don't see tht and scap load as the same thing but I could be wrong.THT I thought was the pulling back of the top hand as the elbow begins going in the slot and the lead shoulder starts turning pulling the bottom hand forward as the elbow is working up into plane of the ball.Scap loading to me starts before tht and is a way of inward turning the shoulders without doing it to the whole upper body as I guess Tom means by counter rotating the upper body.I feel it allows the shoulders to start turning at a greater angle and applying rotation[force] over a longer distance which allows more speed to be built up by impact.Pujols talked about in his swing that he has to keep his hands back while the swing starts with the hips leading,I feel he scap loads then begins tht which is keeping his hands back while the hips start the process,however while the hands are back Tht is generating batspeed while they hang back for sequencing with rest of body,allowing hips and shoulders lead the way.

Tom some of the verbage is hard to follow but I think most things you said is what I teach.Can you clarify abduct and aduct.Also try to explain internal vs. external rotation and 90 degree angle of throwing arm and how it is facing at those points of in vs. out rotation.Is their any film of pitchers that show this that you are aware of.Tom by the way the girls here did pretty well here this summer [11/12 y.o. My daughters team was state runner up ,got beat 1-0 by Naples Fla. that was world series runner up to Waco on Espn last month.