Posted by: Doug () on Sun Aug 24 14:50:12 2003

>>> hitman, you miss the point...you seem to be fully convinced that "rotational" hitting, not "linear" is the way to go...i know from your posts in the past that you do not believe in full x-t....but if you were to look at some clips of mantle, ott, and musial, not to mention macgwire & griffey jr, they all made contact at full x-t...some people might sarcastically as "who would in their right mind want to swing like mantle, ott, musial, macgwire and griffey jr"? <<<
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> > > > > > > Hi Bart
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> > > > > > > I have charted the swings “of mantle, ott, and musial, not to mention macgwire & griffey jr,” many times and their back-arms were not at full extension at contact on pitches from the middle-in. And, they all exhibited good rotational hitting principles. On outside pitches I would agree that their back-arms were past the “L” position but not fully extended. A trace from Ken Griffey Jr.’s contact video frame is what is featured in the “Get Your Arms Extended” article in the “Truism or Fallacy” section. --- Bart, I certainly would not have featured Ken Griffey, Jr’s swing if he exhibited linear mechanics.
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> > > > > > > Jack Mankin
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> > > > > > >>>dougdinger, Get the films of Williams and then make up your own mind after breaking down his swing. His hitch is a thing of beauty, and Bonds hitch is very similar. Call it whatever you want,but I called it a hitch 35 years ago, and still do. It was the way he started his load. Too many dead start hitters today that need to be on the juice to have any juice.
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> > > > > > Doug
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> > > > > my comments pertained to the last 4 frames before contact, point being that i was not referring to a "hitch", i was referring to the swing itself....again, put the 5 frames of williams side by side other major leaguers and you will see his swing (not hitch) was unorthodox....that doesn't mean it was bad, it just means you have to be consistent...if you tell a kid that type A seing is the ideal swing, don't come along and tell him to also emulate tpye B and type C...
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> > > > Bart, In what way would you say that Williams swing was unorthodox in the 4-5 frames you are talking about? To be a good hitter at the major league level, you have to be consistant, no matter what kind of swing you have. If you have all the film of Williams, you will see that the hitch is an important part of his ability to time the ball, hit the ball and hit the ball with power. It was with Ruth too and is with Bonds.
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> > > > Doug
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> > > i was not talking about a hitch....preswing hitches are generally irrelevant...i already specified his unorthodox SWING movements...again, it worked for him and that's great, and he was great....all i did was to point out that his SWING (not hitch), particularly in frames 1 and 2) were DIFFERENT from what many of us consider the ideal swing....
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> > Hello
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> > I am starting to see Bart's point. He has been clear after he was asked questions that he isn't precluding Ted or his swing from what is considered good.
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> > I think he is stating, in his own words, something Jack has said: that for beginners, forget about pre-bat movement, get the shoulders to move stationary hands. Then move on to all the swishing, if you can.
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> > Bart, the use of the word "ideal" makes for a lot of confusion and subjectivity. It means something different to everyone.
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> > For many people here, a lot of swishy bat movement before the swing starts is considered good, ideal even.
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> > As for the things that happen after Ted starts, with the bat head dropping dramatically, I know what you mean. The clip I most identify with that movement of Ted's comes from his 1970s instructional video. I think the pitcher was lobbing it; after all, Ted was well over 50 at the time. I haven't identified the same tendency in game films of him.
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> > Melvin
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> his swing was consistent...he swung different...that's not bad but it was different from the conventional type A mlb swing....frankly, i'm running out of patience.....some people assume that all great hitters swung the same & the reality is that they either don't have clips or they see what they want to see....i made my point, am out of patience and hereby terminate this discussion.....

Bart, It was not your discussion to terminate. dougdinger asked where he could get film of Ted Williams and I gave him a place to do that. Relax man, you don't have to like Ted or Barry or anyone else. How you swing or what you like in a swing is your own business. I have every film of Williams that I know of, and have been collecting them for 24 years. Each AB that he has, something different shows up. Why? different pitches in different areas of the strike zone. I will hang my hat on his swing.

Doug