Posted by: Graylon (g_dunc@hotmail.com) on Mon Jan 28 19:18:59 2008

> >>> A couple of things I "see" on the Bonds clip are:
>
> 1- arms move as bat uncocks before shoulders begin to move ("untilt", "tilt", "rotate" depending on how you think of it - I think tilt)
>
> 2-the degree of "front side stretch" is more than would be expected if shoulders "just turned" with hips.
>
> Shouders are tilting/or laterally tilting, nit just turning.
>
> If they just turned, they would give the appearance of "flying open" with less "front side stretch", "pulling off the ball".
>
> Instead, shoulder/scap action must "tilt" to support arms and forearms in torquing the handle which reactively keeps shoulders/hands back longer enabling a way of controlling the final load/coil/stretch of torso for well timed and quick acceleration with a generous contact zone for square contact.
>
> Then the shoulders scaps need to connect to the torso as it unwinds by "spinal" rotation.
>
> Lead arm retains CHP/string tension.<<<
>
> Hi Tom
>
> As I mentioned before, what you call “shoulder tilting” would be more accurately defined as the “shoulder rotation about a tilted axis”. -- As an example, suppose we placed marks across from each other on the rotor of a gyroscope. We then tilted the spin axis 40 or 50 degrees and spun the rotor. We would note that in relationship to the ground, while one mark would rotate from a lower position upward, the other would rotate from a higher position downward. – Would you refer to the motion of the marks as “tilting” or “rotation?
>
> Jack Mankin


Jack,

I know this was directed at Tom, but I would like to put in my 2 cents. What you describe with the gyroscope would be spinning. I would say that the marks would be rotating and not tilting, but unfortunately our shoulders are not a gyroscope and they are not merely rotating around a tilted axis.

When I am done with my statement I have a question for you.

I am not disputing the fact that the shoulders rotate. What I do dispute is that they power the swing. For purpose of my explanation think of your hips as a gear that is constantly rotating horizontal to the ground. Now imagine that your shoulders are another gear that is not round but more oblong shaped. AS the oblong gear sits above the rotating horizontal gear nothing is happening to it. Now as the oblong gear tilts back it catches the horizontal gear and now has force applied to it, granted it will rotate but let me finish explaining how this affects your swing. In a swing the front hip clears as the shoulders tilt laterally until they catch the hips rotation(force is now applied to the shoulders) this force is what gives the hands a solid base to be launched from. The hands are launched in a circular path while you turn the bat around them to collide with the ball. The shoulders do rotate but they do not power the swing.

Now to my questions:

How do horizontally rotating hips power diagonally rotating shoulders?

If your shoulders "match" the plane of the pitch and should have a steeper tilt for lower pitches and our shoulders rotate around a tilted axis, then wouldn't we have to be bent over to hit a pitch that is low?

IMO the hands have more to do with the shoulders tilt then the shoulders do.

Graylon