Posted by: tom.guerry (tom.guerry@kp.org) on Mon Jan 21 10:43:35 2008

Jack-

I apologize for seeming to jump around a lot when you want to focus on narrower areas, but somehow, all these areas are related.

In this case of "shoulder tilt" vs "shoulde turn", for discussion purposes, I think it is necessary to equate the "shoulders" with the scaps and the torso/chest with the upper rib cage,collarbones and spine.
See more detailed post under the "Jack Mankin" thread below.

The "shoulders" (scaps) are primarily "tilting" and "connecting" in the Barry clip.

The upper torso is turning about the spine as an axis as it finishes coiling then uncoils and turns the then "connected" shoulders (scaps).

The position of the spine is one thing that is adjusted for pitch/collision location.

The Spine can be said (after golf) to have an up/down "spine angle" and a back/forward "spine tilt".

I would say that what most influences how this spine orientation is set just prior to torso unloading/untwsting is the TILT of the shouldewrs/scaps which is cotrolled by the feel of the hands torquing the handle/applying "THT".

When the front scap tilts UP, this stretches the front side of the torso producing "front side stretch". There is a controllable difference between front side stretch and back side stretch.

The more the difference/the greater the "front side stretch predominates, the more the spne angle stays back and goes down which tends to match low/dropping pitch.

in/out location has more to do with direction of THT and lead arm/scap stretch which is set slghtly earlier, before/at toe touch.

The shoulder TILT needs to happen with the front foot getting down as it needs to be synched with shift of weight to the front foot.

This then gets to what is happening at the other end of the spine which is the shifting of support form one foot to the other with or without some turning of the pelvis around the lower spine influenced by how the hp joints are lending support.

The motion of the base of the spine will work with the TILT of the shoulders at the top of the spine to control the orientation of the upper spine that the shoulders are turned around, BUT this adjustment needs to be primarily by the upper end to ba as late and
accurate as possible, which is by scap tilt slaved to hands.

The best way to describe hip action I have seen comes from golf (Hardy) by how the front and back hip action happen together, described by weight shift and how this relates to hips turning.

This topic is best addressed under "weight shift". Whether or not/to what degree "momentum transfer" is involved is less important.