Posted by: Graylon (g_dunc@hotmail.com) on Sun Jan 6 18:51:36 2008

> > > > For the average high school baseball/softball player, would it be beneficial to start with the hands hidden from the beginning of the swing rather than the additional hand movement during the swing. If the player shows some talent, then work with them coiling during the pitch.
> > > >
> > > > Some times I think the move movement, the more chance for error. I guess the questions remains, how beneficial is it to coil during the pitch?
> > >
> > > HIDING THE HANDS!
> > > the thing that kills most hitters is any movement post pitch release..
> > > i ask hitters "assuming 90 MPH, how long does it take from the instant of pitch release to the moment the ball reaches a point about a foot in front of the plate?" the few hitters i have spoken with have NEVER NEVER NEVER given me the correct answer!! that is the work of the previous coaches they have been listening to who are simply out to lunch, & don't make the hitters realize how little time they have to get to the ball on time....
> > > the first order of business is to make the hitter aware he only has 0.41 seconds to get the bat to the optimum point where you will hit the ball on the button... if you take 0.42 seconds, YOU WILL BE LATE!! IT IS A SIMPLE MATTER OF BEING ON TIME... EITHER YOU ARE OR YOU ARE NOT...
> > > if you implement post pitch release movement of your hands, to either drop your hands, do a little circle hitch, & draw back the arms & shoulders, this will cause you to be late on far too many pitches that you should be driving... rather your arms & hands should already back drawn back.. once the pitch is released, EVERY PART OF YOUR BODY SHOULD START FORWARD!!..extraneous backward movement in the hopes of generating additional batspeed works, but to the detriment of causing you to be late on many pitches in too many spots.. there is a trade off.. if you simply start forward, like the greatest HR hitter of all time HENRY AARON, the tradeoff is though you may not hit the perfect pitch as hard, is still goes in the seats.. & you will get to more pitches on time & hit them harder.. result: a MUCH better BA with less HR, as opposed to a MUCH worse BA with more HR.. your choice.
> > > for young players, i believe the less extra movement prior to pitch release will help them much more to be much better much sooner.. also they don't learn bad habits so soon, which take forever to lose.. don't worry, they will learn enough bad habits anyway.. it's the nature of the beast.
> >
> >
> > George,
> >
> > You must have super human students, because I havn't personally met anyone who can determine pitch location as soon as the ball leaves the pitchers hand.
> >
> > You say that a hitter has .41 sec. before the ball is a foot in front of the plate, will I don't want my players hitting the ball a foot in front of the plate, so apparently they have more time.
> >
> > You say " every part of your body should start forward" that's simply not true, you would be constantly lunging.
> >
> > Have you ever watched video of Hank Aaron?
> >
> > Graylon
>
>
> hi gray!
>
> your logic skills are in need of some work...
> i made absolutely no mention on the subject of determining pitch location in my statement above..where did i say anything about a hitter having superhuman powers including clairvoyance & be able to determine where the pitch is going before it gets about halfway to the plate? why would you think i would expect someone to do something that's impossible? what is that relative to, anyway? i don't understand why you even mention it, what is the point you are trying make?
>
> i mention a point ABOUT ABOUT ABOUT ABOUT ABOUT ABOUT ABOUT ABOUT
> a foot in front of the plate, because my observation of the longest HR events indicats that is the most common optimum point where most of those HR's are struck.. ABOUT ABOUT a foot in fron fo the plate... ergo, that MUST be the optimum point in space to strike the ball..
>
> YOU on the other hand want to say i'm wrong.. ok call me a liar about a couple inches at most... make it 9" or thereabouts.. feel better?
>
> don't tell me you think the hitter should be striking the ball as it gets even with the plate... if that is where you think your hitter should be hitting the ball,, it's only going one way... up & or straight back...at that point YOU ARE LATE LATE LATE LATE!!! HELLO?!?!?!
>
> this "MORE TIME" you're talking about... makes me fall on the floor & laugh uncontrollaby for 5 minutes!!!... this tells me you are COMPLETELY lost in space... don't feel too badly, though... you're not alone. it is endemic among virtually ALL coaching circles..
> QUESTION; exactly how much "MORE TIME" are you talking about???
> ANSWER: assuming 90 MPH, the ball is traveling@ 132 feet/second..
> so it travels ONE FOOT IN 1/132 SECOND... which is 0 . 0 0 7 sec.
>
> so what you are telling me is that this "MORE TIME" you get is a
> GRAND TOTAL OF 7 THOUSANDTHS OF A SECOND...good luck with that!!
>
> your statement about lunging assumes that i meant for all parts to go forwards AT THE SAME TIME.. which indicates to me your mind is not working very logically, if you take my statement & run with it in the direction you did..it is complete stupidity for anyone to do that, or to think anyone would endorse doing that.. my statement was in relation to the forward DIRECTION, rather than about time..that is not all at once.. read this following paragraph carefully, because it has everything in it that all you socalled experts cannot figure out, & it is what hurts your students more than anything... it is not about the swing; rather it is about TIME..:
>
> what i was trying to get you to understand is because of the time contraints,that is, the INDISPUTABLE FACT THAT SINCE THE BALL WILL BE ARRIVING AT THE OPTIMUM POINT IN SPACE IN A VERY FINITE AMOUNT OF TIME AFTER IT IS RELEASED(0.41 sec), IN ORDER FOR THE BAT TO ARRIVE THERE AT THE OPTIMUM POINT IN TIME, THE HITTER SHOULD BE ACUTELY AWARE OF & ELIMINATE ANY EXTRANEOUS MOVEMENTS WHICH DO NOT GO STRAIGHT AT THE BALL. TO DO OTHERWISE IS TO SABOTAGE YOURSELF & MAKE YOU LATE TO FAR TOO MANY PITCHES IN CERTAIN SPOTS THAT YOU SHOULD BE DRIVING INSTEAD OF POPPING UP, FOULING OFF OR MISSING COMPLETELY..
>
> henry aaron had a fairly straghtaway closed stance, hands up & back...bat pointed before or near the perpendicular, NEVER past the perpendicular or pointed at SS.. short stride,no buggywhipping, right straight at the ball..i probably saw henry aaron play in person in chicago as much as anyone who lived outside atlanta or milwaukee..my most vivid recollection of aaron is probably the rarest occurrence you could imagine.. i was at a game at wrigley sitting in the RF well where i saw him drop 2 fly balls on consecutive plays.. lost them in the sun, but he never gave up looking for them, finally seeing both of them too late, & stabbing at the last moment..showed absolutely no fear of getting hit, probably because he had a pretty good idea of where they were going to be.. he did not have a great arm.. but he had one of the quickest releases i ever saw, if not the quickest, unlike andre dawson who NEVER failed to pop the ball in his glove once before unloading....


George,

Did you not write "once the pitch is released, EVERY PART OF YOUR BODY SHOULD START FORWARD!!!". That would indicate to me that you know where the pitch is going to be, because if you start forward upon release you are commting early.

I would have my hitters front foot, after stride, even with the front of the plate, so therefore yes, I want them to hit the ball when it gets to the plate or slightly over the plate. I have had many students allow the ball to get that deep and hit HR.

The ball would actually travel 1 1/2' to 2' further and yes when you're talking about .41sec the extra .014 might make a difference. Besides the time difference more equates to the fact that my hitters will not have to commit as early as yours thus giving them more time to recognize the pitch.

You state, " made absolutely no mention on the subject of determining pitch location in my statement above..where did i say anything about a hitter having superhuman powers including clairvoyance & be able to determine where the pitch is going before it gets about halfway to the plate?"
My point exactly if my hitter doesn't know where the ball is going to be until it is about half way to the plate, then it would make sense that he does have time to prepare his body to do what it is about to do the first half. It's called timing.

But I see that you constantly dodge my questions about your poster child for hitting. or wheteher you have taught a kid to hit who has played at a higher level. typical. Keep those hitters on top of the ball hitting weak grounders and I'll keep them hitting line drives.

Graylon