Posted by: Coach Steven () on Thu Jan 3 14:23:29 2008

For me the definitions you provided from Leferbvre are correct, however your statement that the front shoulder rotating rearward while the back side is coming around constitutes a revolving door I disagree with. This is a function of the unload process and not necessarily the axis of rotation. In other words the swinging gate is not "exclusive" of forward shoulder rotation in a rearward manner, but instead the axis is tilted and not straight in a vertical manner...ala Rose.

As the backside rotates around a tilted axis, the front shoulder naturally (or better yet as a result of an effecient swing) must rotate as well. Hitting from a tilted axis of rotation doesn't change some constants such as maintaining the hinge angle of the cocked wrists and having both shoulder rotating in a connected manner. What I am trying to say is that if you have the front leg fan open as the front shoulder spins from a vertical axis that has not inward loaded first prior to forward unload, then you have a revolving door. A spring loaded gate will come around with more force than a revolving door.

Did I make any sense here?

Thanks,

Coach

> I looked at both clips. In my opinion the clip of Brian (more evident on first clip) is a more a swinging gate than revolving door, however Rose clip is the revolving door. You will note that Rose did not have great power numbers.
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> On Brian you can see the tilt of the body and if you drew a line through the head along this angle at contact you will see the axis is not a straight veritcal line (revolving door), whereas with Rose on the overhead clip you CAN draw a line almost vertically through the head, down his back, and out of his butt -- revolving door. Maybe we are talking semantics here but if you look at elite hitters at contact where they are tilted forward and their unstrech of the load is occuring which brings their body back towards the catcher --- this line through the head (which is where the axis has to start) will almost always be shifted back to front or forward from where they started -- resulting in a swinging gate. I "believe" the overhead of Rose where the line is almost completely vertical is the exception.
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> Hi Coach Steven
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> I agree that our difference may just be a matter of semantics. From my point of view, whether or not a batter’s axis in vertical or tilted rearward has no bearing on whether he rotates around an axis like a “swinging gate” or a “revolving door.” For the sake of clarity, we need to agree on a common definition of these terms.
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> To me, rotating like a “revolving door” (or “spinning) means the front-side is rotating rearward while the back-side is rotating forward. This would place the axis of rotation at the center of the body (the spine). – In his book, Jim Leferbvre states the following regarding this type of rotation. -- “Hitting power cannot be produced by a simple turning or spinning motion of the entire body. In fact, such a motion can produce undesirable, inward-directed centripetal force.”
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> Whereas, with a “swinging gate” the front-side remains posted while the back-side rotates around. This would place the axis of rotation (or hinge) at the front-side rather than the center of the body. – Jim Leferbvre writes, “The back side of the hitter’s body, including the rear hip and shoulder joints, rotate forward in the approach phase.”
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> I assume Leferbvre’s statements would be true regardless of whether the axis is vertical or tilted rearward. – I think the above points out the differences between his teaching and that of Batspeed.com. – Your thoughts would be appreciated.
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> Jack Mankin
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