Posted by: Dave P (cdpaetkau@telus.net) on Sun Dec 23 13:59:29 2007

> >>> Jack
>
> Your demo is not even close to relative since you assume that forward momentum is the catalyst for speed in a pitch. If you would draw your lines through the head of the pitcher after his weight has shifted to his front foot you would see that there is VERY LITTLE HEAD MOVEMENT AND THE BODY IS ROTATING AROUND A STILL AXIS OF THE SPINE PRIOR TO EXTENSION OF THE ARM TOWARD THE PLATE JUST BEFORE RELEASE. The axis of the spine is in a different plane then that of a hitter but the principals are sure simular to what you talk about in hitting.
>
> There are very simular mistakes made in pitching mechanics that create the same problems in hitting mechanics. The lead shoulder flying open leads to the hands flying away from the body in hitting and in pitching the throwing arm to fly away from the body and creates side arm spinning. From the top view the two motions look almost identical.
>
> All motions rely on the same biomechancial principals that are related to scientifical absolutes which do not change. <<<
>
> Hi Dave
>
> I am sure I have not studied the pitching motion as much as you and will therefore bow to your greater knowledge in that field. However, I would like to clarify a couple points you made in your post. – I am not sure what you mean by “catalyst,” but you seem to be saying that rotation about a fixed axis is what is important and that forward momentum attained to that point was not a major factor in the pitching motion.
>
> We can clearly see that the pitcher’s pushing off the mound generated a good deal of forward body momentum by foot plant. On the other hand, the batter did not push the body forward. He just placed his foot forward and initiated rotation without generating forward momentum. I agree that rotation about a fix axis is a major factor in both pitching and hitting. However, your post seems to infer that the forward tilting of a pitcher’s axis from momentum is not a factor.
>
> If that were the case, then a pitcher should be able to throw just as hard rotating about a batter’s axis of rotation (leaning rearward toward the catcher) as he could allowing forward momentum to tilt his axis forward from the hips upward. Likewise, a tilting forward axis would be just as effective in swinging a bat as throwing a ball. I doubt that is what you meant to imply, but it needs clarification.
>
> Once we have cleared up this issue, I would like to discuss just what the “lead shoulder flying open” means, as it pertains to the baseball swing.
>
> Jack Mankin

Hi Jack

Thanks for your comments. Part of the issue in comparing the mechanics is that the rotation of the lever arm (from elbow to hand) are in different planes. The batting motion the lever arm is parrelle to the upper arm while in pitching it is 90 degrees from the upper arm rotation. This plus the fact that a pitcher is throwing down a slope (I tried hitting down a pitching mound and the results are worth a whole discussion) creates forward momentum of the body that is not seen on flat ground throwing.

As I see the motion comparison between pitching and hitting the rotation of the body is the propelling force of both and the forward momentum in pitching of the upper body and the extension of the arms during the final phases of the swing are for control of the impact zone or throwing control. Both of these motions allow for a higher percentage of successful completions of each motion and are not used for greater generation of velocity.

As for the flying open part of the discussion, my observations show that the front shoulder needs to make as tight of a rotation around the still axis. If either the front hip moving away from the plate (towards ss)instead of back or the axis moves forward (usually the front shoulder continuing to move toward the pitcher too long into the swing) will create the shoulder to rotate in a wide arc instead of a short turn. The tighter the turn the faster the rotation. The shortest distance between two points is the quickest way to get there.

Sorry that I can not illusrate on this site because for something like this it is the easiest to draw and observe.

Merry Christmas to all

Dave P