Posted by: Bart () on Sun May 11 08:11:29 2003

Just some more thoughts on the batspeed at full extension vs. at the "L" position.
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> > > > > > > I had the great privaledge to see the long drive competition on ESPN tonight. Obviously, the goal of the competition is to hit the ball the farthest (also somewhat the straighest, but mostly the farthest). And to hit the ball the farthest there are two things involved.
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> > > > > > > 1) hit the ball squarely on the sweet spot.
> > > > > > > 2) hit the ball with a lot of batspeed.
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> > > > > > > If you would have watched the competition, you would have seen that nearly all of the players hit with clubs that had 50 or more inch shafts AND all hit at extension. Why is that? The laws of circular motion tell you.
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> > > > > > > If you put a bat, golf club, or anything with a length into circular motion, which part is moving the fastest? The farthest most part on the object (the bat head or golf club head). That is because the end of the bat or club is covering more distance in the same about of time.
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> > > > > > > So what does this mean. It tells me that the long drivers know that they need to get max club speed to hit the ball the farthest. And they know they have to use long clubs and hit at extension to do this.
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> > > > > > > Same thing in baseball. To hit the ball the farthest, the same two factors apply. But in baseball, the ball is not sitting still on a tee. It is moving at high speeds and comes in at different locations. So players choose to hit in the "L" position because it allows them to make better contact, at the cost of losing some batspeed.
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> > > > > > > Max batspeed (club speed) occurs at the farthest point out (at the tip of the bat/club with extension). Long drive golfers know that, and we baseball players should know it as well.
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> > > > > > Too many holes in your thesis to address them all, so I'll deal with just a couple. 1.using the stance as a reference point, in golf the ultimate target is lined up with the mid section whereas in baseball the ultimate target is to your right or left (depending on if you are lf or rh). Or another way to put it, a counter analogy would be that you generally hit a baseball even with or in front of the plate, but in golf, if there were an imaginary plate you are hitting the ball between mid and back of plate!2. How much L you nhave has a lot to do with how far the ball is (at contact) from the hands. A golf ball is ON THE GROUND, so assuming you don't want to bend your legs or stoop over to hit the ball, of course you will have maximum extension/no L!
> > > > > > If you were to place the golf ball on a 3-foot high table, I guarantee you would have some L in your swing!!And if you were to hit a baseball that is at rest on the ground, assuming you don't squat down, I guarantee you will have zero L, full extension!!!
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> > > > > > Sorry, Mr. X, triple bogey for you!!!
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> > > > > The position of the ball has little to do with extension or not (hold on let me try to explain). If the golf ball were on a three foot high table, yes you would have the "L" position IF you stood in the same spot. If I were going to try to hit the golf ball as far as I can, I would adjust my position (back up if the ball is elevated) so I could still swing with extension. Just for clarity, to adjust to pitch height you bend more or less at your waist.
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> > > > > As far as "home plate" position, you are slightly off. Yes, in golf you want to make contact with the ball basically in the middle of your stance/plate (even with your crotch). Contact in baseball should be made even with the front knee, making slight adjustments to pitch location. The position of your front knee has nothing to do with the position of home plate. You can stand anywhere you want in the batter's box, so the relationship of the plate to you front knee can change. So yes there is a little difference between crotch and front knee, but it really does not effect extension.
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> > > > > And I'm confused about your "target" your talking about. Are you talking about the ball? And how the golf ball sits in front of you, but the baseball is pitched at you? Well ultimately, you want to wait and hit the baseball when it comes to your front knee. So the target/goal of you swing should be to get the bat to your front knee when the ball gets there. As I said before, there isn't that much difference between you crotch and front knee, and the actuall contact point varies with the pitch. To put it simply, the goal of golf is to hit the ball that is resting in front of you, and the goal in baseball is to hit the ball when it will be close to that same position. In golf you are just bent at the waist more (like adjusting to a low pitch in baseball).
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> > > > > Again, I'm not saying that anyone should or shouldn't swing with extension. That is up to the individual. I would recommend hitting with the "L" because it gives you better bat accuracy (better chance of contact) even though you lose a little batspeed.
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> > > > > This really can't be argued if you think of something that is in circular motion. What part of this object is moving the fastest (moving with the greatest amount of speed)? It has to be the part that is farthest from the center of motion. That is because the part that is the farthest away is covering a greater distance in the same amount of time. Thus it has to have the greatest speed.
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> > > > By the way, in comparing/contrasting the golf & baseball swing relative to XT, don't forget the wrist-roll factor!
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> > > What do you mean by that? I don't think you should roll over in either sport until after contact so what is the "factor"?
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> > OK...................................I don't have a lot of time, or patience for that matter, but I'll BRIEFLY help you out on this one.
> > First, you have the "L", then you have XT, then, if you run out of arm XT, you have wrist roll.
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> Yes, and wrist roll is one of the risks of hitting with extension, along with a decreased ability to make solid contact. But, as I said, you shouldn't have roll in either sport if everything goes right. So what is the factor? It doesn't change the fact that max batspeed is reached at extension.
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> I know what wrist roll is, but it shouldn't be a "factor" in either swing, and doesn't effect the batspeed that comes before it. Sorry Bart, didn't mean to wake you from your beauty sleep.

Mr. X, as usual you either miss the point or ignore the point. I never said the wrist roll factor is a POSITIVE factor. Now, if I am to spend any more of my valuable time discussing this matter with you, there's going to have to be some ground rules. First and foremost is you are going to have to explain, point by point, beginning to end what you understand or do not understand about my previous responses to you. Frankly, if you would have understood you would have admitted by now that you are wrong.

Like I said, my time is valuable & I've spent to much time on you already. This piece-meal discussion will not work...too easy for you to conveniently ignore important pieces of the puzzle.

So, if you abide by the ground rules I set forth there can be a discussion. If not,there can not & will not be any further discussion on this matter, at least between you & me.