Posted by: Teacherman () on Thu May 1 05:25:47 2003

Teacherman,
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> “But, in the fluid swing, is the wrist adducting to supply the force or is it getting to that position because of some other force?” My answer: BOTH. Why does it have to be exclusively either one OR the other?
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> You imply that I may have reached an erroneous conclusion if I “…look at each frame individually…” or “…from this frame to that…”. Then ask me a question based on a “…fluid swing…”. And then contend that Arod’s swing came to “… a sudden stop…” or that “…the majority of the force comes from the hands thrown and then suddenly stopped.” Exactly what is “…fluid…” about suddenly stopping?
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> You refer to “Arod’s clear linear hand path…” Is your definition of linear hand path - hands in a straight line to the ball? When does Arod’s linear hand path begin? Is it when you say he realizes he’s fooled and disconnects? When he disconnects, does this discount the movement of the bat you term preswing movement? Your quote : “And although I agree there is some preswing movement that you called top hand torque….” It sounds as though you are treating this movement lightly. Is that the case (regardless of whether the elbow or the hands generate the movement)?
> If he were to start his swing with NO “preswing movement” and take his hands on a straight-line path to the ball, suddenly stop, and whip the bat around - do you think he would’ve hit the ball 390 ft.?
> My point is that you cannot discount ANY portion of the swing.
> My gawd, Teacherman, does it really matter if it’s the lowering of the elbow or the top hand torqueing around the bottom that is generating early batspeed? The point is - without it (starting the bat from a static point) you could not hit a ball as far as with it.
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> As far as the lowering of the elbow vs. pulling with the top hand:
> Perhaps you are right, but what if you desire direction?
> Trial:
> Take your normal stance in the batter’s box. Assume the catcher is standing directly behind you (center of the plate).You start your swing, raise your top hand elbow (cocking the bat vertically and toward the pitcher) and then I instruct you to hit the catcher in the head with the bat. Then I ask the catcher to take a step to his right - and repeat the process. Finally, a step to the left. Would you initiate the directional movement of the bat to his head with only the elbow providing direction?
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> Your quote: “This throwing and whipping of the barrel will produce more speed than simple wrist torque.” Naturally. But the cocking of the bat, THT (or elbow driving down - or whatever you want to call it) and throwing and whipping of the barrel will produce more speed than simple throwing and whipping of the barrel.
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> ray porco

Any preswing movement is probably better than none. However, the sudden change from cirucular to linear discounts its effect greatly. Maybe the word NO tht torque is too strong. But it has very little impact on the batspeed that Arod generates in this swing. He attempts to take a good swing with rotation and circular hand path and at the moment of decision he throws the barrel in a different direction than what all the preswing movement was aimed at. His body is literally falling away from contact. All that is left is throwing the barrel. And the barrel comes around with significant batspeed as a result of the hands reaching the end of the leash. IMHO the power behind this swing is the whip effect not writst torque.

I have not qualms with frame by frame video. It will show the positions the body parts get to. It does not show how they got there or in other words what muscles are working.
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