Posted by: ray porco () on Wed Apr 30 21:27:57 2003

Mister X,

What happened?
I posted the following on Fri Apr 25 19:53:31 2003 in response to your “challenge” in the thread “BHT”:

Mister X,

Good post. It made me see some things.
Referring to McGwire’s pic you said, “His top hand is not bent at the wrist at all, and both hands are parallel (equal distance from the pitcher).” You are right. You have made me rethink the cue, “…drive the top hand past the bottom hand…”. It is not proper. For example, you would not want to drive the top hand past the bottom hand if the pitch were pitched outside. BUT, you do want to drive the top hand past the bottom hand if the pitch were inside AND in doing so this will NOT cause “wrist roll” in a good batter.

In the Griffey and Bonds pics there IS ulnar flexion (what you term “wrist bend”) AND there is no wrist roll. Time for clarification again:

If you were to hold a bat in your right hand and the bat formed a right angle (90 degrees) with the forearm, there would be no wrist bend. But, if you were to bring the little finger closer to the forearm (ulnar flexion) you no longer have a right angle formed between the bat and forearm. Conversely if you were to abduct the hand at the wrist joint by moving the thumb closer to the forearm, you would also cause wrist bend (radial flexion) and also vary from a right angle.

In the Griffey and Bonds pics, the bat clearly does not form a right angle to the top hand forearm, hence there IS ulnar flexion (wrist bend), and also clearly shown (at least in the Griffey pic and I have others to follow - more plain to see than Bonds) is the palm of the top hand facing up (NO wrist roll).

In the following pics, if you cannot see that:
1) the top hand is closer to the pitcher
2) the bat does not form a right angle with the top hand forearm
3) the palm of the top hand is facing up

Then we will need a vote by unbiased parties.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/features/2001/bonds/popups/hr_37.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/features/2001/bonds/popups/hr_42.html

http://www.geocities.com/arod321.geo/rodriguezgoingdeep.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/mariner321/06_18_02_Hit.JPG

http://www.mcgwire.com/picturearchive/hr62/07.jpg

http://www.mcgwire.com/picturearchive/00pics/away20.jpg

http://www.mcgwire.com/picturearchive/01pics/away11.jpg

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/photogallery/season_highlights_2002/hou/page_04.jsp

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/photogallery/season_2002/gallery_0926/page_02.jsp

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/photogallery/season_2002/gallery_0918/page_07.jsp

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/photogallery/season_2002/gallery_0819/page_02.jsp

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/photogallery/season_2002/gallery_0627/page_06.jsp


Continuing:
Referring to the Bonds clip you said, “And if his wrists are bent, I believe it is because he is out in front and not any thinking on his part to drive his top hand.”
Mr. X, I never ask anyone to consciously think once the ball has been released from the pitcher’s hand.

You speak of “…hitting the ball out in front.” as if it were undesirable, stating that “Ideal contact should be made just about even with the front knee.” Says who? What is your physical reasoning for making that statement? What proof do you have? In the clips listed above, the majority of contact with the ball is well in front of the front knee and most of those swings resulted in home runs. What is your ideal contact point for an inside pitch? Should you make contact with an outside pitch even with the front knee?


Explaining the position of Bonds’ hands you said, “Say for an example that his wrists are not bent. If he would keep his hands still in the same relationship and just rotate, at some point in the rotation, his top hand will be closer to the pitcher.” Hands still? Are you saying we should NOT flex the wrists? We should keep them locked (your word - “inactive”)?

You asked, “When you tell someone ‘drive your top hand past your bottom hand’ what are you expecting to happen?” I actually don’t use that as a cue, but what I am expecting to happen is close to what you stated in the post:
Re: Front Leg
Posted by : ( on Mon Apr 21 12:52:22 2003

“Your wrists are able to propel the bat. When you “throw your hands at the ball” and stop them, the wrists will snap (whip) and continue to propel the bat with added velocity (because of the facts above, mainly, even linear hitters have circular hand paths). Think of slapping something. You throw your hand out in a circular path with your wrist dragging, stop your arm, and your wrist snaps around.”

Not exactly, but pretty close. Please also see my post:
Re: Front Leg
Posted by: ray porco (on Mon Apr 21 15:10:12 2003

And finally “wrist roll” as opposed to “wrist rolling over”.
Your quote:
“If the top hand drives past the bottom hand just before contact, that means you ‘roll over’.

and

Your quote:
“THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE. I challange you to describe to me how that is possible. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but I don't see how you could not roll over.”

To you “…there is no difference between the two terms (wrist roll or wrist roll over), and they can be used interchangeably.”
To me there is a difference. That’s why I asked for definitions and clarifications. Especially when challenging someone.

ray porco


Aren’t you going to respond?

ray porco