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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mark Teixeira -- inside/outside

Posted by: tom.guerry (tom.guerry@kp.org) on Thu Dec 6 13:26:45 2007

Jack -

Again, excellent illustration/analysis on in vs out.

You demonstrate that the outside pitch is matched by some lead arm extension and some lead scap stretch/UNpinch/SHrug/ however you want to describe "horizontal aBduction" (front scap moving away from midline, midline in this case being the spine because the scap is considered a posterior body part with it's "midline" being the spine, not the sternum which would be the midline for an anterior body part).

This lead arm/scap extension must be set by "launch" (to create an effective "CHP") and creates a high load/resistance to rotation situation so the shoulders then turn (are turned)less to contact which puts the sweetspot on the ball squarely in a deeper location as compared to inside pitch contact location.

You also demonstrate the THT required to keep bathead acceleration in synch with body rotation.

I was interested in the "missing frame" to see if this showed more hiding of the hands as a demonstration of how the direction of tht changes with in vs out contact location.

Theoretically (and practically, I would say) you need more THT in a different direction which comes from loading the hands in more/longer to adjust for outside.

I agree with you that in/out adjustment is NOT by "fading the axis" although this comparison shows swings that can be taken with the same degree of "bend at waist" since they are on the same line from inside high to outside lower.

Certainly you show that axis fading is NOT used to adjust in/out, but this does not mean that changing bend at waist might not be a way of making up/down adjustment (although I do NOT think this is the way to adjust up/down becasue there is not time). That would require another demo.

Regarding our recent disagreement about shoulder turn vs shoulder tilt at launch, I would say you can see the shoulder tilt in both these swings, but again degree of tilt is more varied with up/down adjustment which is not the issue here.

Still, the way I look at it is that the initial movements of the shoulder at lauch is a tilting of the front shoulder up, NOT a turn and this "tilting" of the shoulders is what is accelerating the "THT" at this point which makes the shoulders RESIST turning as the hips fire/turn open.

Notice how the "front side stretches" as the hips open and the lower body lowers, BUT the front shoulder stays up and in. This continues for a frame or more AFTER the front heel gets down, as long as the hips continue to turn open faster than the shoulders are turned by unwinding of the torso with momentum transfer triggered by the shoulder "tilt" assisting the torquing of the bathead OUT to demand the momentum.

The lead arm/front scap "swing radius" does not have to be entirely "set"/fixed until the torso twist reverses which is after the front heel is down, THEN the angle at the lead elbow DOES have to stay fixed until NEAR contact.

The angle tends to stay fixed through contact on the inside/low load situation, BUT for long swing radius/outside/high load, the lead elbow CAN extend some BEFORE contact (very near contact) AFTER the lead wrist has already uncocked/ADducted some. This can happen WITHOUT deceleration as long as the shoulders continue to be turned by torso untwistsing AND as long as the lead arm/humerus stays connected/internally rotated in the lead shoulder socket with point of lead elbow staying up in the swing plane/no "chickenwinging" or lead extension/external rotation.

This is like a triple pendulum instead of double pendulum connected at the elbow in this case of slight extension at the elbow prior to contact without deceleration/loss of consistent swing timing.This can be effective as long as the "extension sequence" is preserved whereby firts there is extension at the wrist (wrist ADduction) then extnnsion at the elbow. Extension at the shoulder must be avoided (humerus in shoulder socket- scap pinch/hook is OK).

So again, the main remaining issue I see is in how the shoulders work at launch. I think they actively "TILT" to enhance handle torque, then they connect to the better loaded (better control of coil timing and direction) torso and are turned all the way to contact as the hips fire then decelerate with good segmental momentum transfer/whipping.

This high level sequence gives a very different "feel" from actively turning the shoulders or trying to turn the hips and shoulders or entire torso together. Relative to this it "feels" like shoulders are "bypassed" and the swing is instead, "hips and hands" with the shoulder staying in there. Of course the shoulders turn to contact, but if they are actively turned with the attempt to feel like you are turning them to power the swing, this will "rush" the load/coil of the torso and limit early batspeed and late adjustability forcing you to committ early and tend to pull off the ball.


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