Posted by: Mister X () on Wed Apr 30 12:18:20 2003

>>> I've made no statement that torque or a circular hand path are not necessary. I believe, As Paul Nyman suggests, in the best mlb swings, the ball is struck before extension. It is done so to allow for swing quickness and therefore more time to make better decisions. However, this "before extension" swing is not the hitters maximum batspeed. The maximum would occur at extension. And, this maximum batspeed at extension comes from the whip effect.
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> In other words, a sacrifice of speed for quickness. I agree, that in the good mlb hitters swings (before extension) that the batspeed they generate comes from a circular hand path, torque, and rotation around a stationery axis and the things you teach. I just don't understand why it is so important for you to discount the whip effect and the possibility of more batspeed at extension. I think your swing model is very accurate. I see mlb hitters doing what you say. But I also see what my swing mate registers at extension and before extension with me, my sons, and my 16 yr old team. And, I don't know why these two ideas have to be mutually exclusive in your scheme of things. <<<
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> Hi Teacherman
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> I would agree with you that hitters that rely on the whip effect would require more extension of the back-arm to generate maximum bat speed. This is because there is no bat speed gained from a whip effect. But in attempting to reach full extension, the batter generates a straighter hand-path and delays applying torque until late in the swing. So yes, he would still be gaining bat speed at full extension - the longer time he has left to apply torque, the better.
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> The really good hitters are not waiting until late in the swing for some whip effect to generate bat speed. They start generating bat speed from initiation by constantly applying torque (first THT, then BHT) while maintaining a productive CHP all the way to contact. A good rotational hitter can hit a ball 500 feet into the center field upper deck while the back-arm is still back in the “L” position. You would contend that he would have gained even more bat speed as his back-arm reaches full extension. --- If that were true, ask yourself this question. - Why are major league ballparks 330 down the lines and 400+ to centerfield? If maximum is reached at full extension, should they not be 400+ down the lines and 330 to center?
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> You stated “There is no tht in the swing, there is no bht in the swing and there is no chp.”
> Then you say, “I've made no statement that torque or a circular hand path are not necessary.”
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> Jack Mankin
>


Jack,

You just commited a HUGE logical fallacy called "False Analogy". The dimensions of MLB ballparks has nothing to do with swinging a bat!!! It's called tradition. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm starting to believe Teacherman when he says that you are trying to fit what you see into your model, rather than changing your model. Your model is very correct, but you seem to have somekind of hang up on extension and the "whip". No one here has said that it is best to reach extension. Teacherman described it when he said that there is a sacrifice of bat speed for quickness . You sacrifice bat speed for quickness (and ultimately better connection because you can wait longer and make a better decision on the swing). How good of contact you have really determines how hard you hit the ball. It seems to me like your ignoring the laws of physics again.