Posted by: Bart () on Tue Apr 29 08:05:17 2003

>>> Jack: you have said that BHT is “A swing mechanic that applies torque to the bat by pulling the bottom-hand back around the top-hand -- as opposed to driving the top-hand past the bottom-hand.” And THT, in your view (I think this is your view) is initiating swing by starting top hand towards the catcher.
> So...what you just said, "On outside pitches there is less shoulder rotation and thus less BHT being applied. But it is made up for by the added THT" could be re-stated as follows: on outside pitches there is less shoulder rotation and thus less PULLING THE BOTTOM-HAND BACK AROUND THE TOP-HAND, but this is made up by additional pulling of the top hand towards the catcher in the iniation of the swing.
> Come on, Jack, you gotta admit this doesn't come close to explaining anything, much less how to hit an outside pitch!
>
> You are right in many of your theories, but explaining what and why things are happening can at times be mighty deficient.
>
> This biz about pulling the the bottom hand around the top hand is questionable. Pulling the top hand towards the catcher in the initiation of the swing is technically correct, although saying there is "acceleration" resulting from this is highly questionable. But to then in effect say that somehow less of the former is made up by more of the latter....well, sorry, but you are going to have a difficult time even explaining this connection, let alone proving it.
>
> As I have said, Jack, yopu are on the mark on a lot of topics, but there are some weaknesses you need to work on. I think you have a tendency to try and make everything fit into your model, even if it won't fit....better to try and understand better what doesn't fit than to try and "force" it into your model.
>
> With the greatest amount of respect, Bart <<<
>
> Hi Bart
>
> Before a discussion of mechanics that supply torque and the angular displacement of the hands in the swing can be fruitful, we must first agree on the basics. Therefore, before we proceed, do you agree that the forces that generate bat speed are applied to the bat by: (1) a Circular Hand-Path (like swinging a ball on a string) and (2) Torque (the push/pull effect of the hands)?
>
> Jack Mankin

Jack, I agree that a CHP generates more bat speed as well as creating the proper bat angle in which to contact the ball. As far as your second question is concerned, "Torque (the push/pull effect of the hands)"....well, the question is sort of vague & general....certainly the hands have an obvious role....

But to first say that the bottom hand goes around the top hand when this hasn't been proven (and in fact it is the reverse that is true), and then to say that on an outside pitch there is less of this but is made up for by having more of the top hand "accelerating" toward the catcher in swing intiation is taking two unproven premises to prooce a point....(the other unproven premise being that there is "acceleration" of the bat during the phase of moving top hand toward the catcher; while I agree that this is a correct technique, I believe the technique is critical in getting the hands started in a CHP. But there is not necessairily any "acceleration" at this point of the swing, and there certainly is not even greater "acceleration" just because of an outside pitch requiring a wider arc of the CHP.