Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Posted by: george stanley (saint_georg13@yahoo.com) on Thu Nov 29 07:15:18 2007

> > > > He is a topic that has a big controversy. Is contact made deep or out in front of your body? This is the question I have for all you so called baseball experts. And are hitters short and quick to the ball or long and on time with the ball?
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike. The answer varies because everyone does not hit the same. But if I were to choose one or the other I would choose short and quick to the ball. The approach may vary slightly when one is hitting to the opposite field.
> > >
> > > I did observe Chris Chambliss hitting his game winning homerun during the 1976 playoff clincher. On that homerun, Chambliss' bat made contact deep slightly behind to even with the plate.
> > >
> > > The interesting thing is that the bat angle at contact would appear not to be conducive for a right field homerun, but more of a centerfield hit. I noted that as the swing was finished the circular hand path moved the head of the bat along with the ball in the ultimate right field direction for the eventual homerun. This means the bat directs the hit even at contact (as the wrists begins the snap).
> > >
> > > My observation showed that though the collision at impact only lasts a fraction of a second the CHP already predermines where the ball will be hit based upon what time the bat is started and how much batspeed the hitter uses.
> > >
> > > Thus is why hitters like Ortiz and Bonds can stand relatively close to the plate yet still keep the ball in the playing field while allowing the ball to get deep.
> >
> > hi THG!!
> > there is no controversy.. there is simply the inability of hitters to understand the LOGIC & PHYSICS of what is happening..
> > MIKE sez all hitters do not hit the same... true. but what he doesn't say is the REASON they don't all hit the same... i will.. it is because of the variations in their stances & swings, some fail ("fail described" as unremarkable, average ordinary.. anyone hitting less than .280)& some succeed.. i don't want to talk about the ones who fail other than to say they need to adjust their stances & swings.. but they are so poorly coached they cannot understand why they are just average instead of excelling.. & they can't figure it out by themselves..sad.
> > LOGICALLY SPEAKING.. the longest HR which indicates the ball was hit right on the button with the maximum force mostly occurs on a pitch about knee high on the inner half of the plate...the ball is almost always struck at a point about a foot out in front of the plate, & goes to 10-15 degrees to the left of, or exactly at straightaway LF.
> > when you hit a ball out in front of the plate, that means the bat has traveled a longer distance than it would if you hit it even with the plate... the farther the bat travels, the more it accelerates..the greater the acceleration, the greater the batspeed...the greater the batspeed, the greater the power generated. so if the bat travels to a point about a foot or so out in front of the plate, it has traveled a foot farther, therefore the batspeed is greater than it is a foot back of where contact was made.. make sense? therefore the batspeed is greater, the power is greater. the ball is hit harder & travels farther.
> > if you hit the ball even with the plate, you do not have near the batspeed it would have if it traveled another foot..according to computations, the batspeed doubles that last 6" it travels over the previous 6"... so, when you hit the ball even with the plate, YOU ARE LATE LATE LATE!!! when the ball was at its optimum location, you were probably about 18" short of being there... it traveled another foot, before you finally got the bat to make contact.. thus you lost a foot of acceleration.. which means you are late & the ball was probably fouled off or popped up.
> > most hitters do not realize the basic problem is TIME!!! AT 90 MPH,ONCE THE BALL IS RELEASED, YOU HAVE 0.42 SECONDS TO GET THE BAT TO THAT OPTIMUM POINT WHERE YOU WILL MEET THE BALL & HIT IT ON THE BUTTON!!! THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE!! IF YOUR BAT IS NOT THERE, THE BALL CONTINUES ONWARD.. THE FARTHER IT GOES BEFORE YOU GET THE BAT THERE,, THE LATER YOU ARE, THE LESS OF THE BALL YOU WILL HIT, THE MORE IT GOES UPWARD INSTEAD OF OUTWARD..
> > MIKE'S observation of CHAMBLISS' HR is flawed by his inablility to understand the LAWS of PHYSICS..
> > 1. IF YOU HIT THE BALL WHEN IT IS PAST THE FRONT OF THE PLATE,YOU ARE LATE!!IT HAS GOTTEN SO DEEP THAT YOU ARE INSIDE-OUTING THE BALL..THAT IS, THE FORCE VECTOR CANNOT BE STRAIGHT AHEAD, IT MUST BE AT AN ANGLE. AT THAT POINT, YOUR BATSPEED IS ABOUT HALF OF ITS TOPSPEED.. THUS, THE BALL POPS UP ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE FIELD FROM YOUR POWER HAND!! THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE!!
> > 2. MASS x SPEED = ENERGY.. that is, the weight behind a swing in conjunction with the speed of the bat determines the amount of power created.. if luis aparicio had been as late on that same swing, it probably would have been a pop foul..chris chambliss was a big hulk of a guy... probably weighed over 225.though he was late, his powerful swing (high batspeed) along with his considerable weight generated enough power to put the ball high enough & far enough for a HR..this takes an unusually strong individual to able to do this.
> > regarding the RF LANDING:
> > the ball started out going to CF.. however.. since i know the ball was even with the plate,he was late.. & since he was late, he did not hit the ball on the button.. so it was popped up..since he was inside out on his late swing, i would assume an off-center contact, creating a clockwise spin, which would make the ball curve from CF to RF.. add to that there was probably an additional push from a LF to RF crossfield wind, which helped push it into RF.
> > funny mike mentions ORTIZ (250 lbs if he's an ounce) & BONDS (over 220 with god-only-knows-what-kind-of-rocket-fuel he eats for breakfast) as examples of guys who hit balls a long distance even when they are late... has a LOT to do with the weight behind the swing more than any hidden or mysterious hitting ability..
> > MIKE is correct on short & quick... remember you only have 2/5 of a second to get there. how many of you out there knew that? your coach should have told you that before he told you much of anything else.
> > a long swing is a swing that has a windup; that is there is usually a dropping of the hands along with a circle hitch, along with a drawing back of the arms & hands.. as opposed to a right-straight-at-the-ball
> > swing.. this is all well & good.. except since you have ONLY 2/5 of a second to do all that crap, even though your batspeed will be alittle better, IT TAKES TOO LONG TO GET THERE, & YOU ARE GONNA BE LATE LATE LATE!!! LONG SWING & ON TIME USUALLY DO NOT APPEAR IN THE SAME SENTENCE... they are a contradiction in terms..the only time a long "buggywhip" swing arrives on time is on the down/in pitch, which allows you to drop the head of the bat in a greater downward arc, thus generating more batspeed, thus overcoming the extra bat travel length. any pitch pretty much anywhere else is going to make you late to the ball.. ask paul konerko, who makes his living getting the down/in FB to the exclusion of anything else.. result: 30HR, .260 BA
> > with very few meaningful clutch RBI & an abysmal RISP BA.. average, ordinary,unremarkable, overpaid moron with millions.. go away. from where you stand he's doing great, & you would love to be in that position... but he has ro look at himself in the mirror in the morning, & he KNOWS he's stealing money... if you could talk to him, he would be the first one to tell you he is not happy with himself.. the crime is the batting coach has no knowledge of wht the problem is or how to fix it.. go figure.
>
> George,
>
> Please quit making statements that make absolutly NO SENSE !!! You state that the farther the bat travels the more bat speed you will generate. Your quote "according to computations, the batspeed doubles that last 6" it travels over the previous 6".." If this was the case The optimum place to make contact would be behind me on my follow through, where my bat speed would be around 200 mph. Your bat has to start slowing down at some point. There is an optimum point in your swing that your bat is at its fastest but if your thinking it's a foot in front of the plate, what about a batter who is deep in the box or one who is up in the box? What about an outside pitch? The best place to hit the ball is where you can get the "sweet spot of the bat" on the ball without lunging for it and without having to make to many adjustments with your hands. Unfortunately the pitcher is going to always make you have to make adjustments on the fly. "The perfect swing is the adjustment you make to the pitch you get". - Mike Epstein. An inside pitch would be farther in front an outside pitch would be deeper. I don't know all the statistics that you appear to know, as far as players weights, but I heard that, before the "steroid" era( before players started really bulking up ) most of the homerun leaders weighed less then 195lbs.
>
> Early bat speed is the key, especialy hitting the ball deeper in the zone.

good morning gray!
you are reading things into my statement that i did not say...
i did not include the phrase "to a certain point" in my writing.. i thought you were smart enough to realize that there is a limit to batspeed you can generate.. after all we are all human beings, & we all have ourl limits... you are picking nits..
sorry, i should have written "the speed doubles the last 6" PRIOR TO CONTACT over the previous 6" of travel..not forever after!! great hitters' bats accelerate prior to contact & SHOULD CONTINUE TO ACCELERATE AFTER CONTACT... to some degree.. this can only happen if you concentrate on exploding from stockstill & trying to generate as much power as possible from the moment you start your swing & continuing to exert maximum force on the bat with your hands far past the point of contact..it is not logical to assume the bat will accelerate FOREVER... that is physically impossible, & i am sorry if i led you to believe that is what i was trying to say..
most guys are just swinging the bat at the ball.. they are not concentrating on initiating as much force as possible right fromt he gitgo.. the quicker you are from the start the greater the rate of acceleration, the greater the batspeed, the greater the power...
BUT YES, THERE IS A LIMIT!!! agreed..

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> > > > > He is a topic that has a big controversy. Is contact made deep or out in front of your body? This is the question I have for all you so called baseball experts. And are hitters short and quick to the ball or long and on time with the ball?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Mike.  The answer varies because everyone does not hit the same.  But if I were to choose one or the other I would choose short and quick to the ball.  The approach may vary slightly when one is hitting to the opposite field.
> > > > 
> > > > I did observe Chris Chambliss hitting his game winning homerun during the 1976 playoff clincher.  On that homerun, Chambliss' bat made contact deep slightly behind to even with the plate.  
> > > > 
> > > > The interesting thing is that the bat angle at contact would appear not to be conducive for a right field homerun, but more of a centerfield hit.  I noted that as the swing was finished the circular hand path moved the head of the bat along with the ball in the ultimate right field direction for the eventual homerun.  This means the bat directs the hit even at contact (as the wrists begins the snap).  
> > > > 
> > > > My observation showed that though the collision at impact only lasts a fraction of a second the CHP already predermines where the ball will be hit based upon what time the bat is started and how much batspeed the hitter uses. 
> > > > 
> > > > Thus is why hitters like Ortiz and Bonds can stand relatively close to the plate yet still keep the ball in the playing field while allowing the ball to get deep.
> > > 
> > > hi THG!!
> > > there is no controversy.. there is simply the inability of hitters  to understand the LOGIC & PHYSICS of what is happening.. 
> > > MIKE sez all hitters do not hit the same... true. but what he doesn't say is the REASON they don't all hit the same... i will.. it is because of the variations in their stances & swings, some fail ("fail described" as unremarkable, average ordinary.. anyone hitting less than .280)& some succeed.. i don't want to talk about the ones who fail other than to say they need to adjust their stances & swings.. but they are so poorly coached they cannot understand why they are just average instead of excelling.. & they can't figure it out by themselves..sad.
> > > LOGICALLY SPEAKING.. the longest HR which indicates the ball was hit right on the button with the maximum force mostly occurs on a pitch about knee high on the inner half of the plate...the ball is almost always struck at a point about a foot out in front of the plate, & goes to 10-15 degrees to the left of, or exactly at straightaway LF. 
> > > when you hit a ball out in front of the plate, that means the bat has traveled a longer distance than it would if you hit it even with the plate... the farther the bat travels, the more it accelerates..the greater the acceleration, the greater the batspeed...the greater the batspeed, the greater the power generated. so if the bat travels to a point about a foot or so out in front of the plate, it has traveled a foot farther, therefore the batspeed is greater than it is a foot back of where contact was made.. make sense? therefore the batspeed is greater, the power is greater. the ball is hit harder & travels farther.
> > > if you hit the ball even with the plate, you do not have near the batspeed it would have if it traveled another foot..according to computations, the batspeed doubles that last 6" it travels over the previous 6"... so, when you hit the ball even with the plate, YOU ARE LATE LATE LATE!!! when the ball was at its optimum location, you were probably about 18" short of being there... it traveled another foot, before you finally got the bat to make contact.. thus you lost a foot of acceleration.. which means you are late & the ball was probably fouled off or popped up.
> > > most hitters do not realize the basic problem is TIME!!! AT 90 MPH,ONCE THE BALL IS RELEASED,  YOU HAVE  0.42 SECONDS TO GET THE BAT TO THAT OPTIMUM POINT WHERE YOU WILL MEET THE BALL & HIT IT ON THE BUTTON!!! THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE!! IF YOUR BAT IS NOT THERE, THE BALL CONTINUES ONWARD.. THE FARTHER IT GOES BEFORE YOU GET THE BAT THERE,, THE LATER YOU ARE, THE LESS OF THE BALL YOU WILL HIT, THE MORE IT GOES UPWARD INSTEAD OF OUTWARD..
> > > MIKE'S observation of CHAMBLISS' HR is flawed by his inablility to understand the LAWS of PHYSICS..
> > > 1. IF YOU HIT THE BALL WHEN IT IS PAST THE FRONT OF THE PLATE,YOU ARE LATE!!IT HAS GOTTEN SO DEEP THAT YOU ARE INSIDE-OUTING THE BALL..THAT IS, THE FORCE VECTOR CANNOT BE STRAIGHT AHEAD, IT MUST BE AT AN ANGLE. AT THAT POINT, YOUR BATSPEED IS ABOUT HALF OF ITS TOPSPEED.. THUS, THE BALL POPS UP ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE FIELD FROM YOUR POWER HAND!! THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE!! 
> > > 2.  MASS x SPEED = ENERGY..  that is, the weight behind a swing in conjunction  with the speed of the bat determines the amount of power created.. if luis aparicio had been as late on that same swing, it probably would have been a pop foul..chris chambliss was a big hulk of a guy... probably weighed over 225.though he was late, his powerful swing (high batspeed) along with his considerable weight generated enough power to put the ball high enough & far enough for a HR..this takes an unusually strong individual to able to do this.
> > > regarding the RF LANDING:
> > > the ball started out going to CF.. however.. since i know the ball was even with the plate,he was  late.. & since he was late, he did not hit the ball on the button.. so it was popped up..since he was inside out on his late swing, i would assume an off-center contact, creating a clockwise spin, which would make the ball curve from CF to RF.. add to that there was probably an additional push from a LF to RF crossfield wind, which helped push it into RF.
> > > funny mike mentions ORTIZ (250 lbs if he's an ounce) & BONDS (over 220 with god-only-knows-what-kind-of-rocket-fuel he eats for breakfast) as examples of guys who hit balls a long distance even when they are late... has a LOT to do with the weight behind the swing more than any hidden or mysterious hitting ability..
> > > MIKE is correct on short & quick... remember you only have 2/5 of a second to get there. how many of you out there knew that?  your coach should have told you that before he told you much of anything else.
> > > a long swing is a swing that has a windup; that is there is usually a dropping of the hands along with a circle hitch, along with a drawing back of the arms & hands.. as opposed to a right-straight-at-the-ball
> > > swing.. this is all well & good.. except since you have ONLY 2/5 of a second to do all that crap, even though your batspeed will be alittle better, IT TAKES TOO LONG TO GET THERE, & YOU ARE GONNA BE LATE LATE LATE!!! LONG SWING & ON TIME USUALLY DO NOT APPEAR IN THE SAME SENTENCE... they are a contradiction in terms..the only time a long "buggywhip" swing arrives on time is on the down/in pitch, which allows you to drop the head of the bat in a greater downward arc, thus generating more batspeed, thus overcoming the extra bat travel length. any pitch pretty much anywhere else is going to make you late to the ball.. ask paul konerko, who makes his living getting the down/in FB to the exclusion of anything else.. result: 30HR, .260 BA
> > > with very few meaningful clutch RBI & an abysmal RISP BA.. average, ordinary,unremarkable, overpaid moron with millions.. go away. from where you stand he's doing great, & you would love to be in that position... but he has ro look at himself in the mirror in the morning, & he KNOWS he's stealing money... if you could talk to him, he would be the first one to tell you he is not happy with himself.. the crime is the batting coach has no knowledge of wht the problem is or how to fix it.. go figure.
> > 
> > George,
> > 
> > Please quit making statements that make absolutly NO SENSE !!! You state that the farther the bat travels the more bat speed you will generate. Your quote "according to computations, the batspeed doubles that last 6" it travels over the previous 6".." If this was the case The optimum place to make contact would be behind me on my follow through, where my bat speed would be around 200 mph. Your bat has to start slowing down at some point. There is an optimum point in your swing that your bat is at its fastest but if your thinking it's a foot in front of the plate, what about a batter who is deep in the box or one who is up in the box? What about an outside pitch? The best place to hit the ball is where you can get the "sweet spot of the bat" on the ball without lunging for it and without having to make to many adjustments with your hands. Unfortunately the pitcher is going to always make you have to make adjustments on the fly. "The perfect swing is the adjustment you make to the pitch you get". - Mike Epstein. An inside pitch would be farther in front an outside pitch would be deeper. I don't know all the statistics that you appear to know, as far as players weights, but I heard that, before the "steroid" era( before players started really bulking up ) most of the homerun leaders weighed less then 195lbs.
> > 
> > Early bat speed is the key, especialy hitting the ball deeper in the zone.
> 
> good morning gray!
> you are reading things into my statement that i did not say... 
> i did not include the phrase "to a certain point" in my writing.. i thought you were smart enough to realize that there is a limit to batspeed you can generate.. after all we are all human beings, & we all have ourl limits... you are picking nits..
> sorry, i should have written "the speed doubles the last 6" PRIOR TO CONTACT over the previous 6" of travel..not forever after!! great hitters' bats accelerate prior to contact & SHOULD CONTINUE TO ACCELERATE AFTER CONTACT... to some degree.. this can only happen if you concentrate on exploding from stockstill & trying to generate as much power as possible from the moment you start your swing & continuing to exert maximum force on the bat with your hands far past the point of contact..it is not logical to assume the bat will accelerate FOREVER... that is physically impossible, & i am sorry if i led you to believe that is what i was trying to say.. 
> most guys are just swinging the bat at the ball.. they are not concentrating on initiating as much force as possible right fromt he gitgo.. the quicker you are from the start the greater the rate of acceleration, the greater the batspeed, the greater the power... 
> BUT YES,  THERE IS A  LIMIT!!! agreed..

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