Posted by: Doug () on Fri Apr 25 15:34:16 2003

Noname, Mike learned a lot about the swing after his playing days were over, but the experience he gained playing against the best pitchers in the world taught him a lot more than mechanics. He learned how to approach hitting when he stepped into the batters box, and you can't learn that out of a book. A few thousand AB's will teach you the most important aspect of hitting (the mental game). Never look down on a guy just because he was successful at what he did. What was Ted Williams only rule?
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> > > > > > > > > > Doug
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> > > > > > > > > Doug, it takes both parts to be a successful hitter. If you only know the mechanics of the swing, and have no mental approach, you will not be very successful (especially at the MLB level). But the same goes for the opposite situation.
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> > > > > > > > > If you only have a good mental approach, and have very poor mechanics, you will also struggle (as Epstien did for most of his career). And again, I am not knocking Epstein. He was a better player than I probably ever will be. But in respect to MLB players, he was only an average player.
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> > > > > > > > > I agree that AB's help teach experience and the mental approach. But that is really all they do. They don't teach mechanics, which you also need to successful. And that is why most MLB hitter's don't make good hitting coaches. Hitting just comes natural to them. They don't study the swing in depth, they just do what ever works for them. Therefore, they can only teach what worked for them, which may not work for everyone. And as you said before, a person just can't gain that natural feeling/mental approach. So all of those MLB AB's don't help someone teach the swing either.
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> > > > > > > > Noname, Since most MLB hittters don't make good hitting coaches, why are they coaching at the major league level? How do you know that hitting comes natural to them? did you ask them? They teach what they have learned, just like any other teacher, except they learned it at the highest level of play. Mike can teach the mechanics and the mental side of hitting. He has been there and learned from the best along the way. In coaching and scouting I like to ask " who have you signed/taught and where are they at?" If and when you gain experience, I would like to hear what you have to say then.
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> > > > > > > > Doug
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> > > > > > > Because it doesn't take a lot to be hitting coach. As I have already said, by the time you're a MLB player, you don't need much help. You know what works for you, and don't really need much outside help. The only time the hitting coach really helps a hitter is when they are in a slump. And then it is only slight changes.
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> > > > > > > I was not the one to say that hitting comes natural to MLB players. YOU said that in your very first post. And I happen to agree. If hitting didn't come natural to them, they wouldn't be very good MLB hitters. My point is that they don't really know or learn anything about the swing. They know what works for them which usually consists of simple cues, because they are natural hitters. If you want and in-depth, detailed description of the swing, I would recommend Paul Nyman or Jack Mankin.
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> > > > > > > I still want to know how you said you learned how to think from a couple of MLB players, when before that you said that "normal" people can't ever gain the natural feeling. Did you have the natural feeling, or are you contradicting yourself?
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> > > > > > > (This is No Name, but ray suggested a better name)
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> > > > > > Noname X, Learning how to think in the batters box and normal hitters trying to feel natural are two different things. Learning to think in the batters box comes from game experience. If you can find a teacher that has that experience, maybe he will pass on some knowledge to make you have a better game plan in the batters box, but he can't make you a natural. Name some MLB hitters that don't know or have not learned anything about the swing, and when you talked to them. This is about the 4th time you have bad mouthed big leaguers, but you have never said who it was you talked to that did not understand the swing. I guess your thinking is that if a guy plays in the big leagues he is just a lucky dumb bell without any knowledge of the swing.
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> > > > > > Doug
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> > > > > To put it simply, yes. He is lucky enough to be born with great athletic talent, and the natural ability to swing the bat. Obviously they have to refine their natural ability to reach the highest level, but that does not have to include any great learning of the swing. They don't have to go to Paul Nyman or Jack Mankin to learn the details of how to correctly swing the bat. They have the swing down good, they just need simple, minor corrections to improve. All that might be needed is a simple cue that fixes what ever slight problem they have. They don't need in-depth description of what the cue is trying to accomplish.
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> > > > > I never said MLB players don't learn anything about the swing from their time in the big leagues. They just don't learn all the details of the swing like someone like Paul or Jack has from studying the swing in-depth for years. If they have a problem, they learn how to fix that. They don't learn what they are already doing right because of natural ability.
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> > > > > I still don't see how you can learn to think in the batter's box. All you can do is scout the pitcher to know what he can do, and then stay back and wait for a good pitch. It's just a matter of being patient and staying with-in your self. What else did those ex-MLB players teach you?
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> > > > > And to clear things up, what is your definition of the "natural" feeling. Because I guess we don't see eye-to-eye on that matter.
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> > > > X, You learn to think well in the batters box through experience. You say that all you can do is scout the pitcher. Well! you better know how to scout yourself too, and experience is the best teacher. A natural feeling can't be defined, it is a feeling that some have and most don't have. It is part of the talent the great players have. If you could teach it, you would get rich fast.
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> > > > Doug
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> > > Doug your getting vague and not really answering my questions. Maybe there is no answer, but I still want to know what you do to think better in the batter's box? I said all I can think of is to scout the pitcher. You seem to be saying there is more.
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> > > If all you have to do is scout the pitcher well, how did those MLB players help you? All you would have had to do is scout better yourself. And if that's all you have to do why are MLB players so valueable? If you scout the pitcher well, they can't tell you anything you don't already know.
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> > > Is there more behind your point or what? You seem to be:
> > > 1) hiding or with-holding information for some reason or
> > > 2) trapped so you just keep pointing to experience.
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> > > I would have to believe that it is the first reason. If you just don't like me just say so. If you would rather I come to you and pay you some amount of money instead of you giving away your secrets on a public board, just say so.
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> > X, Go back through the posts that I directed to you. Answer my questions and I will be happy to share a few things with you .If you want to be a young know it all, then there will be nothing to share. My playing days are long over and I share with people that I enjoy only. From the looks of your last post, I doubt that I will be sharing much more with you. You can go back to Mr. Nyman now.
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> > Doug
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> Doug, I'll be glad to back to where the real knowledge and instruction is. But I am trying to see other people's takes on the rotational swing as well. And I can really tell your hung up on this experience thing. As in you HAVE to know more than me because you're older than me. I can completely understand if you don't want to share your ideas with someone, that is your right. But don't do it just because I'm young and knowledgeable.
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> I don't specifically remember not answering your any of your questions. Are there any specific questions you want answered? Rewrite it or direct me to a post so I know what you are looking for.
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> Again I'm not knocking experience. But other factors (talent) can overcome lack of experience.

Well X, You have already admitted that you can't hit, so what is it that you have learned?

Doug