Posted by: Coach C () on Fri Apr 25 11:30:55 2003

I really enjoy the dialog on this site and appreciate some of the insight. As many have mentioned before I too see many hitters with a different style of hitting in MLB and it has been one of my life's ambitions to understand their differences. I've spent years emulating many of these great hitters in cages and in games, both left handed and right. I've used video analysis to help me to achieve these goals and I can say for certain that I never will stop learning. I feel it was my responsibility not to change someone's swing until I understand everything about their swing, because many do it differently. Nothing grieves me more than to go to a college or high school baseball game and see 30 kids all look the same in their set-up and their swings. It's a cookie cutter approach and I don't buy it. Those of you that go to these games too, know what I'm talking about. However go to a MLB game and everyone looks different.....they have their own style.
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> > > > In my quest to emulate many great hitters it was always important for me not only to mirror their swings identically, but more importantly, understand the feel that got me there. Feel is how I teach, because that is all I know. So from me students often hear.......it feels like this, or did you feel that. I try to develop drills that encourage these feels and quite frankly my methods are not conventional. Most of you know from experience that conventional drills can do more harm than good.
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> > > > Some of the swings I've been able to replicate in hitting, with the use of slow motion video are Nomar Garciaparra, Ken Griffey, Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron, Alex Rodriguez, Babe Ruth, Larry Walker, Lance Berkman, Jeff Bagwell, Rafeil Palmeiro, Juan Gonzales, Tony Gwynn and about 50 others. I know it's sounds crazy, but it just been my obsession for the last 20 years.
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> > > > I mention this now because I want to talk about what feel has taught me, not science. Feel has taught me that the hands control all swings, but how we use them is the key. As an example Tony Gwynn teaches pull the knob, but the way he teaches it is not how he himself does it and many of his students struggle. His students rarely get in the slot to activate the lower body. I believe A-Rod pushes the knob with his hands (not pulls)with emphasis on bottom arm extension (on the proper path but avoids top hand rollover by extending is hands past the ball , and gets added power from pushing his legs to the ground, which forces his hips to rotate, this is why he sometimes never gets the lead leg straight at contact (only sometimes). Bonds hands are very active as evident by his prepatory bat wave, but his key is not to drive them through the ball but only to hold on, as evident by his sometimes shortened follow through and short arms, rarely does he ever get extended in the swing. Bonds and A-Rod's idea of staying inside the ball are two different concepts.....Bonds stay's inside by shortening his arms and A-Rod pushes his hands inside the ball with the goal for longer arms. I do not favor one over the other quite frankly because I understand the goals of each hitter. Bonds hits to one side of the field with idea of hitting home runs, A-rod wants to hit to all fields and never wants to swing over 70% (That's a quote from him on ESPN). Bonds has perfected his approach by waiting for the ball to get to him and hitting only his pitch while the other 99.99 percent probably don't do one or both. Bonds is just tremendous!!!!
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> > > > All the others I've mentioned have different quirks in their swings as well and to be sure I've definitly over simplified Bonds and A-Rods swing. However to my original point about the hand action. In all of the swings I've emulated the hands are the key factor. Whether their actively going to the ball (pepper mentality or linear) or completely passive and just holding on (pure rotational). The problem most have with the rotational concept is that the hands get to far away from the body and the arms tend to get too long (disconnect), this is why the hands are active because they keep the arms in close to the body, but they don't hit. Completely passive hands create disconnect from the torso and too long of a swing. If you hit a ball with long arms it can go a long way, but consistancy is not likely because the swing will be too long, in a game where you need more time.
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> > > > It is only my opinion that most kids need to feel their hands in the swing at a young age. This doesn't mean they should go straight to the ball, but they need to know what they are doing, their position in relation to their body, because no matter how we slice it, the hands must stay inside the ball or the ball will hit us in the arms. In rotational mechanics we want short arms as the goal, in linear type hitting we want long arms (extension) in front of the body............both are quick when done correctly, so seeing the ball a long time can still be achieved.
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> > > > I much prefer the short-arm approach (rotational), but it doesn't mean linear hitters won't succeed if the instruction is done correctly. Linear hitters can definetly hit for power too, I give you Manny Ramirez, Mark McGwire, Alfonso Soriano and Jason Giambi, to name only a few. Frank Thomas pulls the knob (not good in my opinion), while Manny Ramirez and most others push (really push) the hands through the ball.
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> > > > Hope I don't ruffle feathers, but this is what I feel.........it's not based on science.
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> > > > Coach C
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> > > > Please make any comments in your response to feel and not based on science, I'm not a scientist, I'm a baseball player. I'll fully understand it when you tell me your feel in the swing. Thanks.
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> > > Coach C-
> > > In each individual's hitting and in teaching others, feel is important. People learn in different styles: visual- have to see it to emulate it: audio - have to hear it explained to understand it; kinetic - have to feel the motion to reproduce it.
> > > However those are learning styles.
> > > Your statement that you go by feel, not science, is essentially saying you have your beliefs and you are sticking to them - logic best not interfere. Of course there is no argument to that. You are right - in your own mind. However there is no room for discussion. If I disagree, then I don't 'feel' what you feel so I'm wrong or different or whatever and its all irrelevant.
> > > So I don't 'see' or 'feel' the point of your post.
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> > > You said:
> > > "Linear hitters can definetly hit for power too, I give you Manny Ramirez, Mark McGwire, Alfonso Soriano and Jason Giambi, to name only a few. "
> > > I don't 'feel' that these are good examples of linear hitters. Soriano, in my heart of hearts, reminds me more of Bonds (with a bit of Aaron thrown in) than of an ARod, Gwynn or Thomas who have more linear traits, at least I feel they do.
> > > Since you can't feel what I feel, I guess you'd have to agree with me that I'm right because I'm not going by science but by what I feel. And my feelings are all I know and I've spent a lot of time studying and feeling swings so these guys are not linear, they are rotational.
> > > If you disagree with me, don't quote any science or logic since I'm just expressing my feelings.
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> > I don't disagree with you, but can you duplicate that swing? I contend that to arrive at those angles with the hitters you talk about certain muscle groups need to be activated, I've made it my passion to replicate these swings to the highest degree and in order to arrive at these positions I had to do certain things. What I'm explaining is my rotational/linear/muscular/balance feel on these swings. This is why reviewing video clips of players or describing the scientifically perfect swing is all well and good, but is it what everyone is doing and if not, what are they doing? This is why everyone looks different.......Does everyone look the same to you? Bonds and Soriano look nothing like each other and their spray charts confirm this. Are you feeling me (Ha! HA!). Don't feel threatened, because we don't agree.
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> > Where do you feel your power is, what is your level of grip pressure, where is your balance at contact, where is the ball in relation to your feet when you make contact with a pitch down the middle, what do you do with your hands with a pitch boring in or pitch tailing away, how hard do you swing (percentage), do your hands separate at stride landing, can you hit without a stride, do you have any holes in your swing (pitches that are harder to handle in the strike zone than others)? Answer these questions and I will understand you better, but don't ask me to stand a certain way, have my feet do this, throw my hands there, etc. It's cookie cutting.
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> > Coach C
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> Are there any commonalities/fundamentals/universals in the swing? or is it just everybody does it their own way, no two are alike?
> I've known lots of coaches who say things similar to you. Some are excellent at making each hitter better within that hitter's own abilities and style. Many others have no plan, no cookie cutter, and just plain don't know what they are doing.
> And I have no idea from your posts where you fall in this continuum.

Three ways to swing a bat, you either push, you pull or you do neither. As youngster I literally pushed the handle from the back shoulder (not the knob) straight to the ball. This style was without question hand dominated, but served me O.K. through college, but I always lacked the power (clearly). After college I discovered that if I pushed the knob with both hands, extending the lead arm through the ball, it would give me more power with equal accuracy. Later I learned to pull the knob by starting my hands as far back as I could comfortably and just pulling straight to the ball. Lastly I learned to do nothing with my hands, just to hold on. Everyone of those swings is clearly going to activate different parts of the body at different times. The commonalities are this........balance, and a steady head. The pitchers job is to get the hitter off balance, to commit at the wrong time. Great hitters commit at the right time by maintaing their balance and a steady head, regardless of how they tranfer the energy to the barrel.

All of my hitters look different for a multitude of reasons. Major Dan please answer this question........Do you feel power in the lower back and stomach during the swing? Answer this please.

Respectfully,

Coach C