Posted by: () on Fri Apr 25 09:45:15 2003

I really enjoy the dialog on this site and appreciate some of the insight. As many have mentioned before I too see many hitters with a different style of hitting in MLB and it has been one of my life's ambitions to understand their differences. I've spent years emulating many of these great hitters in cages and in games, both left handed and right. I've used video analysis to help me to achieve these goals and I can say for certain that I never will stop learning. I feel it was my responsibility not to change someone's swing until I understand everything about their swing, because many do it differently. Nothing grieves me more than to go to a college or high school baseball game and see 30 kids all look the same in their set-up and their swings. It's a cookie cutter approach and I don't buy it. Those of you that go to these games too, know what I'm talking about. However go to a MLB game and everyone looks different.....they have their own style.
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> > > > In my quest to emulate many great hitters it was always important for me not only to mirror their swings identically, but more importantly, understand the feel that got me there. Feel is how I teach, because that is all I know. So from me students often hear.......it feels like this, or did you feel that. I try to develop drills that encourage these feels and quite frankly my methods are not conventional. Most of you know from experience that conventional drills can do more harm than good.
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> > > > Some of the swings I've been able to replicate in hitting, with the use of slow motion video are Nomar Garciaparra, Ken Griffey, Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron, Alex Rodriguez, Babe Ruth, Larry Walker, Lance Berkman, Jeff Bagwell, Rafeil Palmeiro, Juan Gonzales, Tony Gwynn and about 50 others. I know it's sounds crazy, but it just been my obsession for the last 20 years.
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> > > > I mention this now because I want to talk about what feel has taught me, not science. Feel has taught me that the hands control all swings, but how we use them is the key. As an example Tony Gwynn teaches pull the knob, but the way he teaches it is not how he himself does it and many of his students struggle. His students rarely get in the slot to activate the lower body. I believe A-Rod pushes the knob with his hands (not pulls)with emphasis on bottom arm extension (on the proper path but avoids top hand rollover by extending is hands past the ball , and gets added power from pushing his legs to the ground, which forces his hips to rotate, this is why he sometimes never gets the lead leg straight at contact (only sometimes). Bonds hands are very active as evident by his prepatory bat wave, but his key is not to drive them through the ball but only to hold on, as evident by his sometimes shortened follow through and short arms, rarely does he ever get extended in the swing. Bonds and A-Rod's idea of staying inside the ball are two different concepts.....Bonds stay's inside by shortening his arms and A-Rod pushes his hands inside the ball with the goal for longer arms. I do not favor one over the other quite frankly because I understand the goals of each hitter. Bonds hits to one side of the field with idea of hitting home runs, A-rod wants to hit to all fields and never wants to swing over 70% (That's a quote from him on ESPN). Bonds has perfected his approach by waiting for the ball to get to him and hitting only his pitch while the other 99.99 percent probably don't do one or both. Bonds is just tremendous!!!!
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> > > > All the others I've mentioned have different quirks in their swings as well and to be sure I've definitly over simplified Bonds and A-Rods swing. However to my original point about the hand action. In all of the swings I've emulated the hands are the key factor. Whether their actively going to the ball (pepper mentality or linear) or completely passive and just holding on (pure rotational). The problem most have with the rotational concept is that the hands get to far away from the body and the arms tend to get too long (disconnect), this is why the hands are active because they keep the arms in close to the body, but they don't hit. Completely passive hands create disconnect from the torso and too long of a swing. If you hit a ball with long arms it can go a long way, but consistancy is not likely because the swing will be too long, in a game where you need more time.
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> > > > It is only my opinion that most kids need to feel their hands in the swing at a young age. This doesn't mean they should go straight to the ball, but they need to know what they are doing, their position in relation to their body, because no matter how we slice it, the hands must stay inside the ball or the ball will hit us in the arms. In rotational mechanics we want short arms as the goal, in linear type hitting we want long arms (extension) in front of the body............both are quick when done correctly, so seeing the ball a long time can still be achieved.
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> > > > I much prefer the short-arm approach (rotational), but it doesn't mean linear hitters won't succeed if the instruction is done correctly. Linear hitters can definetly hit for power too, I give you Manny Ramirez, Mark McGwire, Alfonso Soriano and Jason Giambi, to name only a few. Frank Thomas pulls the knob (not good in my opinion), while Manny Ramirez and most others push (really push) the hands through the ball.
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> > > > Hope I don't ruffle feathers, but this is what I feel.........it's not based on science.
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> > > > Coach C
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> > > > Please make any comments in your response to feel and not based on science, I'm not a scientist, I'm a baseball player. I'll fully understand it when you tell me your feel in the swing. Thanks.
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> > > I could not agree more with what you talked about above. I have seen very few hitting instructors who understand the concept of hitting the ball with the hands. The biggest problem with young athletes is that they do not grasp this concept. It is something that is often not taught, and you can see it in many high school aged kids. The reason it is unnatural for most young kids to use their hands to hit the ball is that they feel strongest when they swing the bat with their arms and shoulders. I refer to this arms and shoulders type swing as a "pull" swing. A "pull" swing is slower and it is difficult for the hitter to "unload" their hands with this type of swing. The good news is that teaching a player to use their hands is usually fairly easy (depending on how athletic and coordinated they are). Usually when I work with young kids or high school kids who try to "muscle up" and use their arms to swing, I tell them to think about feeling the weight of the barrel of the bat, and try to "throw the barrel of the bat out with your hands." This may not be exactly what you want them to do with the barrel of the bat, but it is the easiest way for them to feel how to use their hands.
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> > > Many times a "pull" type swing results from an incorrect grip to begin with. Many kids start with the bat back in their palms, and the big knuckles of the hands lined up. This is the way they feel strongest. Getting the bat more in the fingers, and emphasizing a loose grip will allow them to use their hands.
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> > > For those of you out there who don;t believe that you should use your hands I ask you this. How do you effectively adjust to the location of a pitch during the swing, if you allow the bat to be "pulled."
> > >> I think that Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa etc. are not linear hitters, but rather rotational. They are not good players to look at because they are obvioulsy big and strong. These same mechanics are not always effective with young kids.
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> > Coach C,
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> > I agree with what you are saying. Many of the concepts being thrown around these days assume that you already have great hands. Unfortunately, most kids don’t. Very similar to Ben Hogan saying the focus of the player should be on his hips and the “weak” grip was best. While these may have been a good cue’s (techniques) for Ben, they were derived after hitting 100’s of thousands of balls. For the average amateur who tried to lead his swing with his hips, but who lacked great hands it was a disaster.
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> > What do you think is the best way for a kid to learn to use his hands properly?
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> > BBatter400
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> In teaching the the use of the hands I emphasis a few swing thoughts. First I always address the balance of the hitter....The reason I focus on this first is because over active hands will cause poor balance. It is the overactive use of the hands that get the body to lose balance....sort of like throwing a haymaker in boxing. Complete body control is what I consider to be balanced. Second I want the hitter to feel that the bat will do all of the work if we let it. To that end I ask students to swing an extremely heavy bat and ask them to make the bat feel light. Strangely enough hitters often grasp this concept rather quickly and before they know it they are learning to let the bat do the work......they are as you say....feeling the bat head and not the tension in the shoulders, arms and wrists. Another swing thought is to feel that the wrists are loose through contact because in truth we are not hitting through the ball, but rather coasting just before impact and the swing is on auto pilot. Stay smooth through the ball. Another thing I do is pitch from 30-35 feet and throw straight fastballs at about 60 mph. I ask them to feel that the ball is supplying all the power and if they coast through the ball, contact will increase dramatically. The realization of this concept can be extremely dramatic for some hitters. Another idea is to purposely swing and miss at a few strikes and have them feel that they saw the ball the whole time and missed under control. This really heightens their awareness of what they should feel like in the impact phase and post contact phase of the swing (under control) and gives them the feel for the first time that when they missed they saw the ball the whole time (this is a miracle worker drill) because poor hitters are generally tense during the impact phase of the swing, when they should be totally tension free (this drill also greatly reduces head movement). All of these thoughts will give increased sensitivity to the hands. Where we may differ is that I believe in a rotational swing the hands are pulled, but it is the presence of tension in the hands that kills the swing. I want my hitters to feel that their hands are light and their feet are heavy. I also want them to only hit their pitch....we track batting averages based on them hitting their pitch and the results are amazing. We also track batting averages based on when they didn't hit their pitch and the results for that are disturbing.
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> All of these thoughts were developed to increase the awareness of the hands through every phase of the swing and what I've found is that by increasing the sensitivty, hitters soon discover that there is power in other places and that's when the hands can do their real job and that is play catch with the ball and let the body do the work.
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> I have many other ideas or drills if you need them. Great hitters are at ease through every phase of the swing, rarely chasing balls and letting the ball get to them.
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> Good Luck!

Coach, C

What you said about balance is ver true. Many of the problems that occur in the swing are due to balance issues.