Posted by: Hoss Roper () on Mon Apr 21 17:43:57 2003

>>> Again, a great discussion. I think we have disagreed about this before. But I still contend that there is very good bat speed at extension. In fact, I think maximum batspeed is at extension as Paul Nyman states. The problem comes from the fact that it is very difficult to get extension against top pitching. Griffey, McGwire, ARod often do, to name a few. It creates a long swing that isn't useful (it's fast but takes to long to get the barrel to the ball). Therefore, some batspeed is sacrificed for bat quickness by most all mlb players.
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> > But, at extension, when the hands stop and the barrel whips around, the batspeed is significant. I have a clip of Arod, completely broken down, clearly disconnected and extending, reaching for an outside pitch and he hits the ball 390 feet. Where did that batspeed come from? It had to come from the whip effect. <<<
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> > Hi Teacherman.
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> > There is no (noda, none) bat speed gain at full extension from the “whip effect” you described. I thought you had “The Final Arc ll.” In the video/dvd we show 2 test that prove the whip effect is nonexistent with a ridged object like a bat. Go to “Bat Speed Research” and read ‘Test the “Crack of the Whip” Theory’. Believe me Teacherman, the theory is a fallacy when applied the baseball swing.
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> > Jack Mankin
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> Jack,
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> Your "test" on the video fails to realize some facts. I may not describe them best, but here goes.
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> 1) NO ONE ever swings with their hands going directly, straight to the ball land stopping like you demonstrate on the DVD. Their is still some circular hand path in linear hitters because of lower and upper body rotation. The difference between rotational and liner hitters has to be determined by the radius of the circular hand path, and where that path occurs. A linear hitter will have a wide hand path that is "out in front". Any movement of the hands forward, across the chest is linear. The hands stay in the same spot in relation to the chest throughout the swing until follow through.
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> 2) Here is where I don't know how to describe this well. Your little turning knob device on the bat is not accurate. Especially when you take into account what I said above. Your wrists are able to propell the bat. When you "throw your hands at the ball" and stop them the wrists will snap (whip) and continue to propell the bat with added velocity (because of the facts above, mainly, even linear hitters have circular hand paths). Think of slapping something. You throw your hand out in a circular path with your wrist dragging, stop you arm, and your wrist snaps around. Same thing happens when you snap a towel. Now think of holding a bat in your hand with your wrist tilted so the bat is level with the ground and pointing straight back. Then "slap" the ball. That is the whip.
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> It seems to me your ignoring the laws of nature. Most likely because your definition of a linear hitter is flawed. I hate to say that, but by your demonstration on the DVD, NO ONE is linear. By what you show on the DVD, everyone is rotational (some just do it better). There is a huge difference in many MLB swings (take A-Rod and Bonds) and you can't tell me that all of them are completely rotational.

I guess I am confused. I thought Teacherman believed in rotation not linear.But Jack always said that throwing the hands at the ball is a linear concept.I also thought Jack said there is no whip effect on the bat because unlike a towel it is a rigid object.And how can you not be completely rotational?Jack, I thought your studies showed that most MLB power hitters are rotational not linear. Please help. Thank you