Posted by: Jimmy () on Sat Nov 10 06:48:50 2007

> > > > > > > >>> Great analysis work. I do want to point out on the Pete Rose clip that in frames 56 through 69 the sweet spot of Rose's bat is in a straight line with the incoming pitch the entire time (eight frames before and four frames after contact). Contact was made at frame 65.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > His hands do have a circular path but this CHP produces a linear bat path through the hitting zone. This is the true definition of the term "linear" in hitting terms.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your thoughts please.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jimmy >>>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Jimmy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You state, “His hands do have a circular path but this CHP produces a linear bat path through the hitting zone.” --- A video analysis from overhead views of over a hundred MLB hitters does not support your statement. As the clip below illustrates, a plot of their bat-paths shows that the bat-head also follows a circular path.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/John_CHP.wmv">Hands & bat-head take circular paths</a>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jack Mankin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Jack,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Pete Rose clip in my view does illustrate the linear portion of his bat path. About 8 frames before and about 4 frames after contact was made (as I described in my previous post). Do you disagree with this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jimmy
> > > > >
> > > > > Jimmy,
> > > > >
> > > > > I know you want to hear from Jack, but I have a couple of questions and statements. It appears by your post that you agree that the hands take a circular path. If the hands are on a circular path how can the bat path be linear? Do you agree that the bat works around the hands? If yes, Then there is no way the bat can be linear. The only way to move the barrel linear would be to stop the CHP and push your hands at the ball. Even if you pushed the Knob of the bat at the ball and left the barrel back, so you could snap it down with your wrists once your arms were extended, the barrel would still be moving in a circular path around your hands.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the hands have a CHP and the bat is working around the hands, then the bat has to have a circular path as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Graylon
> > > >
> > > > Hi Graylon,
> > > >
> > > > I understand your point, but the sweet spot of the bat does travel in a straight line for a portion of a quality swing. (See the Pete Rose clip)
> > > >
> > > > You state "If the hands have a CHP and the bat is working around the hands, then the bat has to have a circular path as well."
> > > >
> > > > This is what I disagree with.
> > > >
> > > > The extended appendage (bat) does not exactly mimic the source of the force (hands).
> > > >
> > > > The energy of the circular hand path is transfered and throws the barrel of the bat into a linear path. The bat does not work around the hands. The hitters legs, body, upper arms, forearms, and hands throw the bat into a direction, and for a portion of the swing the path that the bat is thrown in a straight line. At least the good hitters want this to occur.
> > > >
> > > > Some hitters even release their top hand off the bat because this linear barrel path wants to continue and breaks free of the circular hands.
> > > >
> > > > This is a bit like the circular path a discus thrower creates which transfers into a linear flight of the discus.
> > > >
> > > > Anyways I'd like your thoughts if any of this makes sense.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Jimmy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > See: http://www.batspeed.com/media/John_CHP.wmv
> > >
> > > This is a very interesting clip and commentary. It illustrates problems often encountered when attempting to describe what is happening in the complex action of swinging a bat. Small details are often hard to recognize and harder to describe.
> > >
> > > Note that during the swing, a flattening of the arc of the bat head can obviously be observed beginning at a point just prior to contact. (see red circles # 8, #9, and #10)
> > >
> > > Correct Curved Hand Path DOES cause the bat head’s path to straighten somewhat relative to the line of the pitch, enabling the bat’s sweet spot to remain on the pitch line longer. It can be referred to as “hitting through a long zone”. But while the bat head’s APPARENT path becomes less curved, its ACTUAL path does not. The ACTUAL path continues to rotate around a pivot point established between the hands, thus maintaining the transfer of energy created by core rotation and opposing hand torque.
> > >
> > > APPARENT path is created by the hands (pivot point) moving while the pendulum (arms and bat) swings. ACTUAL path is the movement of the end of the pendulum around its pivot point, irregardless of movement of the pivot point itself.
> > >
> > > An extremely important area of discussion is not mentioned in the clip. That is the set of adjustments required to successfully hit an inside strike verses an outside strike. This clip shows the ball being pulled toward the shortstop. If the ball were to be pulled down the third base line or into foul territory, we would see a tighter CHP, less or no flattening of the bat head’s arc, and contact made further out in front. Conversely, the outside strike would require less CHP, more flattening of the bat head’s arc, and contact made deeper in the contact zone. It would be great to see a split screen comparison of the two swings with live pitching, using the analysis tools with the same camera angle.
> > >
> > > Correct CHP will be more curved for an inside strike and less curved for an outside strike. Thus, more energy will be generated for the pulled hit and less for the opposite field hit. Application of more or less forearm extension during the contact phase, I believe, is the control mechanism for more CHP or less CHP, as well as an important factor in timing… but that’s another discussion.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, the term “linear mechanics” refers to (or should refer to) the results of the hands following a path that is too straight for a given pitch, forcing a breakdown of the opposing forces of THT and BHT acting on the bat’s handle.
> > >
> > > JTW
> >
> > Hi JTW,
> >
> > I agree with you in your description of (hands (pivot point) moving while the pendulum (arms and bat) swings). And you are correct when you stated:
> > "Correct Curved Hand Path DOES cause the bat head’s path to straighten somewhat relative to the line of the pitch, enabling the bat’s sweet spot to remain on the pitch line longer."
> >
> > But in my opinion the APPARENT PATH IS THE ACTUAL PATH.
> >
> > Your APPARENT path is the true path the bat is taking through the air toward the ball.
> >
> > When talking about the path of the bat I believe we should talk about its flight through space in relationship to the ball, not in relationship to it's pivot point.
> >
> > Thanks for your response.
> >
> > Jimmy
>
>
> Jimmy,
>
> I appreciate your statement and it is certainly a technical detail. However, in my view, the term "apparent" is correct as I use it. A pendulum must travel in a perfect arc around its pivot point. Moving the pivot point as the pendulum is swinging causes a path that does not appear to be a perfect arc.
>
> JTW

JTW,

Fair enough. It's a matter of point of view. I just don't want to confuse the readers.

Thank you for your explanation.

Jimmy