Posted by: Teacherman () on Sun Mar 2 08:40:20 2003

I see that apparently this O'Really chap is in cahoots with Major Dan and Teacherman. O'Really says it was good debate and their were nothing personal in their attacks and seconds later calls Zig and his "crew" out by referring to their opinions or desire to understand "foolishness. (we assume that the "crew" referred to are people who do not necessarily agree with anything, but instead want the truth to be discovered and those who do not have the support of data driven results to listen and question respectly without names calling).
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> Mr. O'Really presented a solid argument to some extent. But his and other post deteriorated to personal attacks. Major Dan's calls to find out if Zig is real. give me a break. Zig uses his real name as do many of us and they hide behind screennames to keep people who might want to check up on their credibility from knowing that they are probably not experts at all and have never played the game or been coached by any one with knowledge. WHo are these guys? Maybe they hide behind screennames, so that they can attack without people without the response being personalized.
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> I appreciate the deletion of some of the posts. Perhaps there is another solution. i don't know what it is but it should be sought.
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> I don't think Major Dan, O'Really, Teacherman, initial attacks on Zig were fair, nor was Zig's initial response to the attack were appropriate. Everyone seems to be attacking Zig because perhaps he go a little offended that the attack turned personal to him instead of challenging his data. I am also (as are many others) interested in what Zig and his tests show, without slanderous attacks.
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> I challenge these anonymous posters to Identify themselves and where they teach, who they have worked with and where they get their answers. O'Really sounds like he gets his from Journals and books. Zig is in the field working with athletes of all levels, I know nothing about the other two because there is very little substance to their postings. A third poster "Marvin" (I believe) even has the gall to claim "exercise sciences" like "Kinesiology", and "Physiology" and all the research behind these study programs are not science. This is personal. If someone had said to me that my profession was a joke I would have gotten offended as well (even though Zig did not respond specifically to the attack on his education).
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> Let the "debate" continue!

Absolutely, let the debate to continue.

And ye with thin skin better stay home. I still haven't seen the personal attacks people are claiming (except when Zig called Major Dan the class clown). And, for you new posters, if you'd have been around awhile you'd understand why Dan researched Zig. Has nothing to do with Zig. Has everything to do with the past history of this board. Which apparently most of you new people have no knowledge of.

I would suggest the debate is healthy. As long as you new posters realize you're debating with people who have studied the swing mechanics for several years and have beliefs which won't easily be changed. And, these same knowledgeable posters get irritated at people who take swing mechanics off course. Our skin is thick. You'd better thicken yours.

If in fact data is shown to the contrary, I'm sure much of what Zig says will be accepted. The problem is Zig hasn't proven his point and won't offer swing clips of good swings as he promised. He refers us to his site where the animations clearly have poor swings. On top of that, the throwing mechanics of the pitcher and catcher are atrocious. I've asked if these are considered "good" mechanics or just "samples" of what his equipment can do. I've asked for the swing clip of a mlb player that he says swings good. I don't have it yet. Let him prove himself and his theories before you judge us. In fact, it is us that are requiring him to offer proof (which he hasn't/won't). As a businessman, I understand the passion of both sides. I also understand that once someone fully understands the subject, the most negative person can become the most positive. But that won't happen without proof.

Maybe you "crew members" have been sold. Maybe rightly so. But we others have not seen anything except graphs, charts, and paragraphs of words with no effort to "show" the real details with video.

Zig, please send the mlb swing clip that you offered to schenck5@swbell.net.