Posted by: bob () on Wed Feb 19 10:10:43 2003

Tom, Teacherman and others.
> > >
> > > Always interesting to hear your take on the swing. But when it comes to understanding the swing plane I think you are not giving credit to the person who I feel has done more to help me understand the swing plane than anyone else. I know you used to give credit to Paul Nyman who I consider the real father of explaining and understanding the swing plane and how a hitter uses his body to swing a bat. And I see you and others continually quoting Paul’s information and also what I consider misapplying it based on Paul’s writings by attempting to mix it setpro info with your own personal opinions such as Epstein’s weather vaning.
> > >
> > > I know that Paul Nyman feels that the weather vaning concept only has value as a possible cue. And has no real other biomechanical significance as it is not a teach. I suggest you and whoever else really wants to understand what is going on with the swing plane do whatever it takes to get a copy of setpro’s new hitting CD. I was fortunate enough to see a pre release version of it and all I can say is if you’ve ever found anything that Paul Nyman had previously said about hitting, swing plane or whatever of interest or value, you really haven’t seen anything until you see this CD.
> > >
> > > I know this might sound like a commercial, but I a lot see a lot of setpro’s info being posted here and not being given what I feel is it’s proper credit as to where it came from. I have no doubt that you and others are very cleaver when it comes to hitting mechanics. And I also know because I was a subscriber that a lot of what I see posted here came directly form setpro’s private hitting forums which very few who post here ever had access to. And I can name those who did just from what they post on this web site. I see Epstein’s and other’s who you consider to have something of value to offer consistently being given credit and cited in your posts, but when it comes to understanding and teaching the swing plane, I think some of you need to give some credit to who and where credit is due that being Paul Nyman at setpro.
> >
> > Jonathon
> >
> > You may be right about us Pay For View posters not giving enough credit to Paul Nyman. It is my opinion that if I could spend a day with anyone in baseball it would be him. However, I got to the SETPRO site later than most and missed much of the good early discussions. And, on this particular topic, Swing Plane, I first learned about it from Epstein.
> >
> > As far as mixing our personal opinion with what we learned from him, that is one thing that keeps me from mentioning his name and giving due credit. My "interpretations" of what Paul teaches is not as good as his teachings. I wouldn't want to mislead someone under his name.
> >
> > That being said, I highly recommend him. I also recommend Jack and Epstein.
> > >
>
> I ordered products from Nyman and Setpro. I never got it and he surely billed me for it. I called his number 100 times and nobody answers and nobody calls back. You visit his website and it is never updated. So if you have the knowledge and operate like he does, you can understand why people do not want to be associated with his name. Regardless of who said it first, everybody learns from each other and everybody borrows ideas from each other - who cares who gets credit. We are all in this together. The ones who care who gets credit are the ones trying to make a BUCK, and most of them have no honor.

-----
Ditto. Tom and Teachermane need to be thanked for their time spent (free) trying to give us information they have. Both of them have helped me tremendously and I enjoy chatting with them and reading their posts. If you learn something and choose to share it with others and your motive being trying to provide good, truthful, insight into hitting - then we need to say thank you and encourage them to keep doing it.

I rather read posts on this website than what did he say "pay for view site" - give me a break. Pay for what? Read it here for free. It seems your beef is that they are giving accurate info for free and that makes you mad. If I learn something and choose to share it or pass it on - that is admirable. Epstein learned from Williams. Everybody learned from somebody or somebody influenced their thinking. Tom in his last post talks about Nyman being influenced by Jack. That is why freedom of ideas and discussion and the internet is fascinating - hey dude, this is the information age. Go to Russia if you want credit for your ideas and the masses cannot have access to it. I for one am grateful to Tom and Teacherman - I understand what they write and how they convey their thoughts and I appreciate their time and interest. I give them credit.
P.S. Do not buy the CD - you will find out soon enough exactly what you need to know.