Posted by: Teacherman () on Fri Feb 14 06:13:59 2003

ok, first i would like to say that it takes guts to develop a theory and put it out there for everyone to see.
> > > > > > > > now, georger and frank don't get your noses all knocked out of joint. and don't raise your voice at me!!
> > > > > > > > for those who want clear def. between linear and rotational, it is on this site under bat speed research. read it.
> > > > > > > > and if you read my first note again you won't see the word linear in there anywhere, so i don't know what your talking about. i talk about "weight shift". and if your going to sit here and tell me that griffey doesn't shift his weight against a firm front side then you better check notes.
> > > > > > > > there is most def. rotation in hitting, but it is not done with the back and shoulder muscles as the leads as "wrist action or torque" would have you believe. as well, the entire body does not rotate at the same time as "rotation and the stationary axis" would have you believe. also at no time does the hitter chest and belley button face the pitcher just prior contact,"wrist action or torque".
> > > > > > > > the rotation is in sequence that starts from the ground up. and don't give me your gary ward comments, gary didn't invent that he just wrote it down, and last i checked his teams could really hit.
> > > > > > > > every muscle in the body is probably used at some point when hitting. the primary muscles if hitting properly would be;the quads and gluts, the abs(core strength),forearms and hands.
> > > > > > > > i gotta go watch some baseball so i need to go but more to come later, you guys should be paying me for this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I guess you've studied hitting without the use of video!? Kind of difficult to do isn't it? I've got a large mlb swing clip library and everyone of them are facing the pitcher with their chest and belly button at or even before contact. Bonds, Ramirez, Giambi, Gonzalez, Edmonds, Glaus to name a few.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >---
> > > > > > >heck yeah i study it with out video and with video, is that really so hard to imagine. take your library to the yard and develop some players with it, i don't think so. you can throw out all the names you want but lets break it down in words and visualise it.... picture a hitters whole torso faceing the pitcher before he contacts the ball, is his head completely cocked sideways towards the plate so he can track the ball, or are we giving up on vision too, for rotation. how does a hitter cover the outter third of the plate and where in the world would the bat be? if i'm facing the pitcher with my torso my bat would have to be located somewhere by my hip to have a chance to strike the ball in fair territory.
> > > > > > bonds is the only hitter i can think of that is close to being rotationally dominated like your talking about, and he is the greatest hitter in the game, no doubt. he chokes up on a 32 inch bat and crowds the plate, turns every ball into a pull ball. and i don't think he has actually turned his chest and head away from the ball completely until after he has contacted the ball, i think it is all just happening alittle to fast for you to really .... you can not pull your head and chest away from the ball until after it is hit, if you contact the ball at home plate why would you want your torso pointed in any other directoin than at you contact, then you follow through.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keep talking Mr. King. I'm wondering how far you'll go. It's quite obvious you've never seen frame by frame video.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >it is quite obvious to me that you've never developed a hitter.
> > > > i've seen plenty of frame by frame video, but to be honest with you i don't need it slowed down that much, my eye is trained.
> > >
> > > Read em and weep, Mr. King.
> > >
> > > http://home.1asphost.com/Teacherman/mac500DI.gif
> > >
> > > do your frame by frame analysis and report back about the direction of Mr. McGwires chest and belly button prior to AND at contact.
> >
> >
> > I looked at this video clip and how can you tell. First of all you don't see the push from backside to frontside? I do. and the front shoulder stays close as the hips start to torque. The chest on the ball at contact. the belly is to pitcher on some swings but where is the pitch? inside? if the belly is to the pitcher it better be inside. I believe the best swings are a blend of Linear and rotaional. you must have some weight transfer to a firm fronside. and you must have rotation with the lower body. But it must be in sequence. There has to be separation between lower and upper body to create the torque.
>
> Look at Marks back foot in this clip. At contact the forward weight shift almost lifts the back foot off the ground.

The foot comes off the ground because of the strong rotational forces. Watch his head. As rotation starts the head is absolutely still. Obviously weight is moving in any swing but I wouldn't call it weight shift. I would say it is moving around the stationery axis.

This swing wasn't posted as the "perfect" swing. It was posted to show Mr. King that the chest and bellybutton are clearly facing the pitcher at contact. You probably need Quicktime to play it frame by frame to see this but it is quite obvious.