Posted by: PatA (patrick_allison@reyrey.com) on Thu Feb 13 05:32:05 2003

Phil C posted a question about how to get is daughter swinging up at the ball. The discussion got off topic. There were several responses but I really didn't get the sense of answers to my question.
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> > > > > > > Do you really want an upward swing? I agree that you'd rather drive the ball than hit ground balls. AND you are more likely to hit the ball in the air with an upward swing. BUT that does NOT mean that an upward swing plane is preferred.
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> > > > > > > My thoughts (assume a pitch not too high or low): An optimal hit is where the bat contacts the ball just below the center (with ragards to the flight path of the ball). In fast pitch the flight path of the ball can be rising, dropping or level. With baseball, the flight path is always dropping.
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> > > > > > > With a level or slight downward swing plane, this optimal contact point results in a slight backspin allowing the ball to carry farther. Also, the contact zone is larger when the swing plane is the same (or nearly the same) as the plane of the ball (favoring a level swing).
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> > > > > > > While an uppercut may result in better hits against a medium high to high dropball, a level swing should produce the best overall results.
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> > > > > > > Ok experts, bring it.
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> > > > > > My first thought is I think it's been proven that all pitches go down, even the rise ball (it just goes down less). I don't remember if that was talked about here or on another site. But I still think the slight upswing is the best to match the plane even in softball.
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> > > > > Don't talk about up or down. Talk about matching swing plane to pitch path in the contact zone. Everyone agrees that, with some argument over the rise, all fastpitch pitches go down through the hitting zone. Not as steeply most of the time as baseball, but still down. If in fact the elite pitchers can actually make it go up and still be in the zone for a strike, you aren't likely to hit it anyway. And you certainly can't match swing plane so just look for something down in the zone with less than two strikes, figure it's going to be dropping, and drive it. Most high pitches of any type are sucker pitches anyway. Sit on something low, have good mechanics, and you will carry a pretty good average. Tell her to look belt buckle down with less than two strikes.
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> > > > > Mark H.
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> > > > You are right Mark that some pitches do go up.
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> > > I didn't actually say that. I said there was no argument except on the rise ball. I do know I have seen some pitchers who could make the pitch APPEAR to curve or hop up. I certainly can't explain or prove the phenomena to my complete satisfaction one way or the other (although I enjoy playing devil's advocate in such a discussion) and no one else has either. Whatever it's really doing, it's a kick to sit on the bucket and catch one of these pitchers.
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> > > > Now that we have the physics of pitch movement we can now talk >about bat plane and and swing type. It is true that when hitting a >ball that is from the waist down a slight uppercut is the most >desirable swing path as the ball moves up in the zone a flatter >swing plane in needed to be able to hit the ball consistantly.
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> > > Just as in baseball. This is what it takes to match pitch path to swing plane. The difference is a matter of degree.
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> > > A rise ball has biomechanical advantages for the hitter if they can hit the ball. The spin gives the hit ball a natural spin and motion that will propel it farther then any ball that is going down so if you can learn to hit this pitch it is to your advantage. A swing plane from just slightly above the waist is already a naturally flatter swing and it is the ability of your mind to focus on the ball not the swing that I would preach.
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> > > I disagree. If a rise is truly rising through the zone then matching pitch path to swing plane would require either swinging down (and what's the point of driving the ball in the dirt) or tomahawking the pitch if it's up high in which case you shouldn't be swinging anyway. And I don't think the pre contact spin makes squats worth of difference in how far the batted ball flies.
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> > > > If you can bet to a batting cage where a pitching machine will throw a consistant riseball try this little exercise.
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> > > I have seen a few female pitchers who could make your eyes think the pitch was curving or jumping up. I have never seen (and I have experimented with a new two wheel jugs) a machine which could produce a pitch which gave the same illusion/rise/whatever. The best the machine could do was produce a pitch which appeared to hold it's trajectory.
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> > > Mark H.
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> > > So........back to the point!
> > The only way to hit a ball that is waist level or below without flexing your knees and moving your body up and down is to lower your rear shoulder which creates a downward angle on the bat, an elevated lead elbow and a slight upswing. Yes or No!
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> > Phil C.
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> The tilt of the spine towards the plate lays the plane of the swing over toward the plate. Tilting the spine/torso slightly back toward the catcher gives the slight upswing by my definition. Of course, in either case, on the low pitch, the last half of the swing is coming up but that's not what I mean by slight upswing.
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> Mark H.


Phil
Mark has it here, it is spine/torso angle that determines swing angle. Bat is connected to shoulder rotation by the lead arm, which pulls the knob around in an arc. Keep the top hand out of the swing early, this seems to be a tough habit for fast pitch players to break.